who can read a suture box ?

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Rentprop1
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who can read a suture box ?

Post by Rentprop1 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:06 am

I wanted to buy some sutures for my SHTF bags and can't decipher what the ( example ) 3/0 Black Nylon Mono Suture, FS-1 Style, Non-absorbable 18" means...I get the 18 inch part, and the non absorbable, what is the rest ? needle size ???...of the 4-5 listed here what would be good for closing a small wound that needed stitches



http://store.s-smedical.com/sublnymo.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by IraG2362 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:36 am

In the ER we use on average for most common arm/leg/ torso sutures 5/0 with a PC 5 needle , the numbers are telling you the thickness of the thread it self, too thin and it wont hold unless your doing the face in a non moving section like a eye brow, too thick the scar will be ugly.. but on bigger sections like i mentioned you want think because of body movement which will prevent the sutures coming out to early under normal day to day activities.
I would suggest the top 2 the 4/0 and the 5/0 and to try and use the smaller needles and threads would be very difficult for the untrained. Get your self a set of small hemostats to keep with them for their application. Keep betadine not peroxide for cleaning the wound as peroxide actually damages the the wounds outer tissue making healing take longer. If you have any other questions just shoot me a email..
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by flcracker » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:40 am

Don't forget the quick and easy method:

Body Stapler
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by Dr John Meade » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:40 am

IraG2362 wrote: Keep betadine not peroxide for cleaning the wound as peroxide actually damages the the wounds outer tissue making healing take longer. If you have any other questions just shoot me a email..
Betadine is actually toxic to tissues, as well.
Dr John Meade
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Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. --John Adams

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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by IraG2362 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:58 am

Bama, I beg to differ with you, we use it in the ER for 99% of wound prep , the 1% we don't is due to allergies.We would not use it if it caused any damage .. The other cleaning we do is with plain sterile saline ..
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by Dr John Meade » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:36 am

IraG2362 wrote:Bama, I beg to differ with you, we use it in the ER for 99% of wound prep , the 1% we don't is due to allergies.We would not use it if it caused any damage .. The other cleaning we do is with plain sterile saline ..
I know it is used in the ER 99% of the time. I am an emergency & tactical physician. There are numerous studies that show betadine is, in fact, toxic to tissue. If you look at the protocols and instructions carefully, you are generally instructed to clean the skin around the open wound with the betadine, but not inside the wound itself. Now, do I believe that any of this is clinically relevant? No. I use Hydrogen Peroxide on some wounds, I use Betadine on some wounds, and I use Hibiclens on some wounds. All have been shown to kill tissue, but I don't believe it really inhibits wound healing, regardless.
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by IraG2362 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:53 am

I will take your word on it.. but as I have heard completely differant, granted I do not have your credentials but do wound care on a pretty regular basis. This precise topic has come up many times when patients ask about care of wounds and I have not hear any statements similar to yours.. but one this you did say makes a lot of sense to me, you said "not in the Wound" which i agree with,as we would flush the interior of the wound with saline.. the actual area would be prepped and cleaned with the betadine.
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by Dr John Meade » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:11 am

IraG2362 wrote:I will take your word on it.. but as I have heard completely differant, granted I do not have your credentials but do wound care on a pretty regular basis. This precise topic has come up many times when patients ask about care of wounds and I have not hear any statements similar to yours.. but one this you did say makes a lot of sense to me, you said "not in the Wound" which i agree with,as we would flush the interior of the wound with saline.. the actual area would be prepped and cleaned with the betadine.
Have you never wondered why you have been instructed not to put the betadine inside the wound? If it only killed germs, washing inside the wound would be a smart thing, right?

Again, though, please take note of the other thing I mentioned. I honestly don't think it really makes a lot of difference, one way or another. [smilie=cheers1.gif]
Dr John Meade
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by AirForceShooter » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:28 am

Crazy Glue.

Works quite well


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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by Rentprop1 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:46 pm

guys thanks for the info.....most of the survival forums say its easier just to order Vet supplies like I posted over trying to find places to sell you human sutures supplies.....are this safe enough for SHTF

and FlCaracker damn your stapler hurts just looking at it :ham'r

EDIT....whats the deal with the silk ones ??

http://store.s-smedical.com/hk880.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

would these also work ??
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by Dr John Meade » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:41 pm

I'm sorry, but anyone who doesn't know anything about suture size, material and such has no real business suturing wounds. This is, like many situations, focusing on gear instead of training. If you had all the equipment in a hospital, but didn't understand when (and when NOT) to use it, you won't be any good to yourself or the ones you are trying to treat. Learning to suture is not hard (I have taught hundreds of people to do it over the past 3 decades), but it is still a skill that needs training, practice, critique, improvement, and more practice.
Dr John Meade
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Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. --John Adams

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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by Rentprop1 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:26 pm

bama, I respect your knowledge over the lack of mine in this subject, but as I stated before these are for my SHTF kits in the vehicles and the house, while I may not know how to do it and in some scenario, someone else may and I would like to have it one hand in case they don't ...its called being prepared......

I guess I can gut a stray cat and practice.........j/k ](*,)
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by Dr John Meade » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:40 pm

Rentprop1 wrote:bama, I respect your knowledge over the lack of mine in this subject, but as I stated before these are for my SHTF kits in the vehicles and the house, while I may not know how to do it and in some scenario, someone else may and I would like to have it one hand in case they don't ...its called being prepared......

I guess I can gut a stray cat and practice.........j/k ](*,)
Yes, having the stuff so that someone else could use it is not a bad idea. I wasn't clear that you were thinking along those lines. Sorry.
Dr John Meade
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by Rentprop1 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:01 pm

bama wrote: Yes, having the stuff so that someone else could use it is not a bad idea. I wasn't clear that you were thinking along those lines. Sorry.
I have handcuffs too, but I don't have to arrest anyone ....lol

maybe detain and interrogate, but its always nice to be prepared
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by mjmensale » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:26 am

Rentprop1 wrote:I have handcuffs too, but I don't have to arrest anyone ....lol
No, but you can make quest really happy! [smilie=011.gif]
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by joshuaw » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:52 am

Rentprop1 wrote:I wanted to buy some sutures for my SHTF bags and can't decipher what the ( example ) 3/0 Black Nylon Mono Suture, FS-1 Style, Non-absorbable 18" means...I get the 18 inch part, and the non absorbable, what is the rest ? needle size ???...of the 4-5 listed here what would be good for closing a small wound that needed stitches



http://store.s-smedical.com/sublnymo.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
To answer your question directly...

the 3/0 is the suture size. As the number goes up the size goes down. eg: 3/0 is larger than a 5/0. A #2 is huge (not 2/0) compared to a 10/0. The very small sutures are used for very fine closures. The example here is a 6/0 or 7/0 prolene that is used to suture arteries. A number 2 might be used to close the fascia on an abdominal closure. The color is next. Suture may be black, blue, clear etc. The next part is the type of material eg: monofilament vs a braided suture.
The needle type/size is next. the FS-1 is a "cutting" needle. You would need a chart to determine the many, many needle types. There are two types of suture: abosorbable and non-aborbable. If it is used on the outside of the body...non-absorbable suture needs to be removed. Sutures come in different lengths based on their typical usage.

Hope this helps.

JW

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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by JohnMcD348 » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:41 pm

Perhaps this will help you a bit. This is the brand we use at my hospital. The maker is Ethicon and here's a chart showing:

Needle sizes/types.

http://www.ecatalog.ethicon.com/sutures-by-needle-type

Actual thread size and type have already been explained so I won't repeat it here.

Hope this helps.
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by Rentprop1 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:45 am

gentlemen, I thank you all for your help :ber
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by newade » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:03 am

just for my own info,, what was your decision? like you ,, i need to put some in my bag,, but was leaning towards the staples due to ease of use,and maybe the number 5 needle, the suture kit i have in my surplus med bag isn't very well labeled for needle and thread specifics
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Re: who can read a suture box ?

Post by Rentprop1 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:54 pm

http://store.s-smedical.com/h663.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so I guess these would be fine, especially if a scar is the last thing on your mind :-k
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