Question about Iding at a bar?

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Question about Iding at a bar?

Post by Guest » Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:46 pm

I was sitting at the bar last night and two cops walk in and walk straight over to me, one sits down and says "hey let me see your ID". Turns out they thought I looked under age for drinking and they had just pulled over some 18 year old leaving this bar who had been drinking and came to the bar to check for more underage being served.

My question is, and NOT that I would be like this or do this, but DID I really have to present ID in a situation like that? Minding my own buisness in a bar?

And didn't the whole "not having to present ID on the street under the 4th amendment" get struck down by the Supreme court recently?

If I was walking on a sidewalk minding my own buisness and a cop just asked me for my ID cause it was late at night or whatever, I would refuse polietly and inform them that I was excercising my 4th Amendment right and ask if I was free to go and if I was being detained?

Can that still be done any more or was it rulled constitutional for them to request ID now?

I must be coming off as such the Ahole, but I am all about the 4th amendment and against the whole "show me your papers!"

Asher
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Post by Asher » Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:17 pm

like posted in my previous reply, i don't think they should have questioned or bothered you, instead they should have questioned the bar tender, it is the bar tenders duty to request and check id's to make sure HE is not serving to a minor....

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flashooter22
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Post by flashooter22 » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:50 pm

Asher is partially right. He can (and should) question both. If the bartender is found to be serving to a minor he can get into the same amount of trouble as the person under 21 in possession. Problem is..how do you know how old you are without approaching and asking for ID? Im not phsychic ya know :-k
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Post by Guest » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:43 pm

flashooter22 wrote:Asher is partially right. He can (and should) question both. If the bartender is found to be serving to a minor he can get into the same amount of trouble as the person under 21 in possession. Problem is..how do you know how old you are without approaching and asking for ID? Im not phsychic ya know :-k
Thanks for the answer! What would your recourse be if I refused though? What could you do if all I did was refuse to present Id claiming privacy or something?

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Post by Guest » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:47 pm

Nevermind Flashooter, Saw your post on the other forum! Thanks! And I am 25, but I guess could pass for underage.

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neonnight34609
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Post by neonnight34609 » Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:36 am

this is the first state i have been in and seen LEO walking though bars when there is no trouble or not called on. its just alitte weird to me.
hey DGL19 u should have offered to buy him a drink, lol it is a bar right hahaha

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Post by Cloaked Dagger » Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:07 am

DGL19 wrote:
flashooter22 wrote:Asher is partially right. He can (and should) question both. If the bartender is found to be serving to a minor he can get into the same amount of trouble as the person under 21 in possession. Problem is..how do you know how old you are without approaching and asking for ID? Im not phsychic ya know :-k
Thanks for the answer! What would your recourse be if I refused though? What could you do if all I did was refuse to present Id claiming privacy or something?
I didn't see it and I want to know. I personally don't think you should be required to show ID. I mean what if you forgot it? You don't need a driver's license to walk to the bar after all.

Hey DGL19: "Your papers comrade?"
Libertas aut mortis!

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Person "looks" young still needs ID in Bar

Post by esignup1 » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:58 pm

In doing some work as a bartender, if the person "looks" under age, I'd ask for an ID. Now if they do not have one I can not serve a drink. In fact they would be ask to leave the bar.

So if your ID was left at home, I wouldn't have you sitting at the bar to be questioned about the ID.


Once you've shown your ID, I KNOW your age, I wouldn't ask for it again.

A bartender can be fined and lose the ability to work as a bartender for ten (10) years if caught serving to anybody under 21.

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Re: Person "looks" young still needs ID in Bar

Post by neonnight34609 » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:32 pm

humm ok what does this have to do with the topic ?
esignup1 wrote:In doing some work as a bartender, if the person "looks" under age, I'd ask for an ID. Now if they do not have one I can not serve a drink. In fact they would be ask to leave the bar.

So if your ID was left at home, I wouldn't have you sitting at the bar to be questioned about the ID.


Once you've shown your ID, I KNOW your age, I wouldn't ask for it again.

A bartender can be fined and lose the ability to work as a bartender for ten (10) years if caught serving to anybody under 21.
"Life's tough.....It's even tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

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Post by fhp490 » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:54 pm

Amendment IV: Search and arrest warrants
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Based of the fact that you stated you could pass for under age I would say it passes the test ( would a resonable person believe the search was lawful ) answer Yes
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Post by codlinjr » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:03 am

Turns out they thought I looked under age for drinking... My question is...DID I really have to present ID in a situation like that? Minding my own buisness in a bar?
yes, if we see you in a bar and in possession of alcohol and have a "reasonable suspicion" that you may be underage, we can request ID


If I was walking on a sidewalk minding my own buisness and a cop just asked me for my ID cause it was late at night or whatever, I would refuse polietly and inform them that I was excercising my 4th Amendment right and ask if I was free to go and if I was being detained?
this depends on the "totality of the circumstances"... if you were just walking on the sidewalk and were not acting suspiciously, then all we have is a consentual encounter, in which you could tell us to go fly a kite. however if we could articulate that we believe you have been or are about to be engaged in criminal activity, then its back to the "reasonable suspicion" in which we can temporarily detain you to investigate, and require you to identify yourself.

What would your recourse be if I refused though? What could you do if all I did was refuse to present Id claiming privacy or something?
this would depend on the individual cop and the circumstances again, but you could be charged with resisting w/out violence...

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Post by freehunter » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:39 am

right or wrong leo can make your life miserable.

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Post by molivo » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:54 pm

Agreed. They dont have to be right about something to bust your balls about it.

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Post by Guest » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:22 pm

codlinjr wrote:this depends on the "totality of the circumstances"...... however if we could articulate that we believe you have been or are about to be engaged in criminal activity, then its back to the "reasonable suspicion" in which we can temporarily detain you to investigate, and require you to identify yourself.
This was recently (2004) ruled on in a recent U.S. Supreme Court case involving a Nevada case where a guy who was being detained on "reasonable suspicion" declined to give the police his name in violation of a statute that required him to do so. SCOTUS found that the guy's 4th and 5th Amendment rights were NOT violated.

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Post by molivo » Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:22 pm

Who was the originator of this post anyway? Usually when "guest" appears it was someone selling viagra or something that got "moe'd" down
:smile

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Post by mjmensale » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:29 pm

This "guest" happens to be a member who changed his screen name for personal reasons. No Viagra salesman here!

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Post by Mr. Smith » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:40 pm

Aquaboogie wrote:This was recently (2004) ruled on in a recent U.S. Supreme Court case involving a Nevada case where a guy who was being detained on "reasonable suspicion" declined to give the police his name in violation of a statute that required him to do so. SCOTUS found that the guy's 4th and 5th Amendment rights were NOT violated.
This anti-constitutional decision is disturbing to me, and I believe a more conservative court would have struck it down – and may in the future – but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

I’m not anti-LE, but Constitutionally the subject of an investigation should not be required to provide the police with ANY information.

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Post by DeltaWolf » Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:15 am

So
you have the right to remain silent.
anything you say Can and Will be held against you.

only comes into effect after your arrested?
-Dave

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Post by Rentprop1 » Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:43 am

I think this one was started by DGL19, he used to be a mod in the political forum, not sure what happened to him, one day he was gone, leave it to a newbee to drag up a year old post
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Post by mjmensale » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:07 pm

Rentprop1 wrote:I think this one was started by DGL19...
He's still here - under a new screen name.
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. Claire Wolfe

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