John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

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Springfield
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John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

Post by Springfield » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:33 am

from https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opin ... dment.html
Rarely in my lifetime have I seen the type of civic engagement schoolchildren and their supporters demonstrated in Washington and other major cities throughout the country this past Saturday. These demonstrations demand our respect. They reveal the broad public support for legislation to minimize the risk of mass killings of schoolchildren and others in our society.

That support is a clear sign to lawmakers to enact legislation prohibiting civilian ownership of semiautomatic weapons, increasing the minimum age to buy a gun from 18 to 21 years old, and establishing more comprehensive background checks on all purchasers of firearms. But the demonstrators should seek more effective and more lasting reform. They should demand a repeal of the Second Amendment.

Concern that a national standing army might pose a threat to the security of the separate states led to the adoption of that amendment, which provides that “a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” Today that concern is a relic of the 18th century.

During the years when Warren Burger was our chief justice, from 1969 to 1986, no judge, federal or state, as far as I am aware, expressed any doubt as to the limited coverage of that amendment. When organizations like the National Rifle Association disagreed with that position and began their campaign claiming that federal regulation of firearms curtailed Second Amendment rights, Chief Justice Burger publicly characterized the N.R.A. as perpetrating “one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.”

In 2008, the Supreme Court overturned Chief Justice Burger’s and others’ long-settled understanding of the Second Amendment’s limited reach by ruling, in District of Columbia v. Heller, that there was an individual right to bear arms. I was among the four dissenters.

For over 200 years after the adoption of the Second Amendment, it was uniformly understood as not placing any limit on either federal or state authority to enact gun control legislation. In 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously held that Congress could prohibit the possession of a sawed-off shotgun because that weapon had no reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a “well regulated militia.”

That decision — which I remain convinced was wrong and certainly was debatable — has provided the N.R.A. with a propaganda weapon of immense power. Overturning that decision via a constitutional amendment to get rid of the Second Amendment would be simple and would do more to weaken the N.R.A.’s ability to stymie legislative debate and block constructive gun control legislation than any other available option.

That simple but dramatic action would move Saturday’s marchers closer to their objective than any other possible reform. It would eliminate the only legal rule that protects sellers of firearms in the United States — unlike every other market in the world. It would make our schoolchildren safer than they have been since 2008 and honor the memories of the many, indeed far too many, victims of recent gun violence.

John Paul Stevens is a retired associate justice of the United States Supreme Court.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. ~Abraham Lincoln
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. ~Ben Franklin

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Re: John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

Post by #1Glock30 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:56 pm

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Re: John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

Post by tector » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:09 pm

I will say this--that position is at least intellectually honest. He doesn't like the 2A, so he advocates the Constitutional remedy for that, repeal, which has been done before (the 21st Amendment repealed the 18th Amendment, Prohibition).

Most liberals just lie and say they don't want to destroy the 2A, when that is exactly all they aim to do.
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Re: John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

Post by flcracker » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:21 pm

For over 200 years after the adoption of the Second Amendment, it was uniformly understood as not placing any limit on either federal or state authority to enact gun control legislation. In 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously held that Congress could prohibit the possession of a sawed-off shotgun because that weapon had no reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a “well regulated militia.”

That decision — which I remain convinced was wrong and certainly was debatable — has provided the N.R.A. with a propaganda weapon of immense power. Overturning that decision via a constitutional amendment to get rid of the Second Amendment would be simple and would do more to weaken the N.R.A.’s ability to stymie legislative debate and block constructive gun control legislation than any other available option.
This twisted logic is very difficult to understand. It sounds like he disagrees with the 1939 ruling because of the basis of a short barreled shotgun not being related to a well regulated militia, and he seems to be making the argument that by finding that use by a well regulated militia is the benchmark, the SCOTUS gave the NRA the basis for their 2A arguments.

However, every legal scholar that I have read on this subject disagrees with the ruling specifically because it is a false statement - short-barreled shotguns were and continue to be standard-issue weapons to military units. The SCOTUS should have found that such weapons CANNOT be prohibited, specifically because they ARE reasonably related to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia. If the 1939 ruling were overturned by a future SCOTUS ruling, the result would be that SBS would be legal and Congress could not prohibit them.

His premise that a constitutional amendment to do away with the Second Amendment would be "simple" sounds like the ramblings of an old man who has forgotten his high-school civics lessons. A constitutional amendment must be ratified by the legislatures of 38 of the 50 states. The Equal Rights Amendment has never passed - how easy does this old Commie think it will be to get 38 states to vote to do away with the Second Amendment? :-k

Arizona, Alaska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Montana, Utah, North Dakota, Texas, Georgia, Missouri, Tennessee, Florida, West Virginia, Kentucky, New Hampshire, Mississippi, Wyoming, Alabama, Idaho, Vermont, Indiana, Arkansas, Wisconsin, South Carolina, Nevada, North Carolina......

Pick 12 out of this list - that is all that would be needed to block such insanity.
and some rin up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stanes to pieces wi' hammers, like sae mony road-makers run daft - they say it is to see how the warld was made!

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Re: John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

Post by tector » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:34 pm

Oh politically it is impossible anytime soon, probably not in my lifetime. Which is why liberal pols try to accomplish it by other means.
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It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.-Swift

Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Learned Hand

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Re: John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

Post by Gregh181 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:19 pm

This right here underscores the importance of Trump. Imagine if Hilary won and was able to make more Supreme Court picks. Quite a few justices are over 80, I’m hoping the likes of Ginsburg just dies, so we can replace her, And the other justices in their 80’s step down as well so they can call be replaced by Trump
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Re: John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

Post by tector » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:23 pm

Gregh181 wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:19 pm
This right here underscores the importance of Trump. Imagine if Hilary won and was able to make more Supreme Court picks. Quite a few justices are over 80, I’m hoping the likes of Ginsburg just dies, so we can replace her, And the other justices in their 80’s step down as well so they can call be replaced by Trump
Well, they had better hurry. If we lose the Senate later this year, then replacements will be a problem starting in January. Get out your voodoo dolls!
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It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.-Swift

Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Learned Hand

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Re: John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

Post by Gregh181 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:22 pm

Hence why I’m voting for Scott over Nelson do flip the senate seat
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Re: John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

Post by tector » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:38 pm

Yeah, but we have enough Haitians in this state to conjure up some serious bad juju. Let's hire a few to do something besides lawn work!
SE FL gunshow calendar: https://goo.gl/GNyvTP

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.-Swift

Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Learned Hand

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Re: John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

Post by REDinFL » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:38 am

Don't ignore the state offices. Any repeal attempt must pass the states. No way it could make the required number now but, don't be blind sided.
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Re: John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

Post by dammitgriff » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:48 am

Repealing the Second Amendment is easier than you think:
https://mises.org/wire/repealing-second ... -you-think
R/Griff

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