NetFlix War Machine

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AirForceShooter
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NetFlix War Machine

Post by AirForceShooter » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:13 am

Not sure if this belongs in this group so mods feel free to move it.

Anybody else seen it?
It's pretty disturbing in many ways and as a nam vet sort of Deja vu

AFS
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Orlando Paulitician
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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:40 pm

I never had the pleasure of serving my fellow American in a military capacity, so I can't vouch as to whether or not it's offensive to your average service person.

That being said, I didn't think the movie was that great. I felt some of the points of the "anti-war" reporter were valid, but for the wrong reasons. When I first joined the forum, my thought processes were a mirror image of those depicted by the reporter in the movie (Muslims attack us because we bomb them and support Israel).

Over the years, I've just wised up to how crazy they are, and they're going to attack us no matter what.

Sayyid Qutb came to America in the 1950's and was disgusted by our culture long before we ever got involved in the Middle East. And it was the teachings of his brother who influenced bin Laden.
Nathan Lewis' testimony before congress wrote: According to a study of 775 floating currencies...the average life expectancy of a floating fiat currency was found to be 27 years.
Ron Paul's Farewell Address wrote:Real patriotism is the willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong,

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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by g.willikers » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:56 am

Anyone remember the 1975 movie, "The Wind and the Lion?"
It probably (maybe) depicted their motivation pretty good.
They just need some kind of conflict to satisfy their macho mentality.
The story takes place in the days of Theodore Roosevelt's presidency.
When the kidnapped mother asks the chief why they are killing all foreigners, he replies he needs a war and this one is presently all he has.
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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by jjk308 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:12 am

Orlando Paulitician wrote:
Sayyid Qutb came to America in the 1950's and was disgusted by our culture long before we ever got involved in the Middle East. And it was the teachings of his brother who influenced bin Laden.
He was especially disgusted by the lawns carefully tended and mowed by American suburbanites! Sayyid Qutb saw Americans as obsessed with materialism, violence, and sexual pleasures. What he really represented was a cultural and religious bigotry far beyond any in our national experience, like the 30 Years War on steroids.
I swear by Jupiter Optimus Maximus .... in the army of the consul Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus and for 10 miles around it I will not steal anything worth more than a sestertius in any one day.

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Orlando Paulitician
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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:41 am

jjk308 wrote: What he really represented was a cultural and religious bigotry far beyond any in our national experience, like the 30 Years War on steroids.
Agreed. And while not all Muslims are like that, the problem with the "moral majority" is that they don't condemn or stand up to the "the bad apples".

In my opinion, a good measure of the morality of a culture is the courage of the those to stand up for the rights of others and advocate change. Our society used to be extremely racist as little as half a century ago. But people of all colors and creeds found the courage within themselves to stand up for the rights and dignities of others.

What do you have in the Middle East, even in the most tolerant of their countries? Someone says a disparaging, racist thing about Jews, and no one bats an eye.

As of late, our PC police might have gone to the depths of insanity by getting mad at genetic facts concerning sex, getting mad at Christians who want to peacefully practice their faith, et cetera, but at least during the early decades of its existence, it changed America for the better, righting injustices.

The Muslim world doesn't have any strains of PC in their culture, except to bash other religions and cultures over the head.

For every Muslim who comes to America and says Islam needs to be reformed as part of the solutions to Middle Eastern violence, there's 1,000,000 who come to America and says most of the problem is because of America itself. And then 999,900 of them join the Democratic party, and vote for more socialism, vote for more wars when the Democrats start them, vote for more gun control.

That's why when Trump talked about restricting Syrian immigration, I was all on board, despite by liberal Jewish professors and classmates calling me inhumane for doing so.

It solved 2 problems:
-It legitimately restricting a population of immigrants at high-risk to be concealing terrorists
-It restricted immigration of a population who, even if they weren't radical Muslims, they were still radically pro-government and anti-freedom.
Nathan Lewis' testimony before congress wrote: According to a study of 775 floating currencies...the average life expectancy of a floating fiat currency was found to be 27 years.
Ron Paul's Farewell Address wrote:Real patriotism is the willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong,

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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by Cardboard_killer » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:43 pm

I agree Islamic fundamentalist invasion must be resisted, but the idea that the US has been free of such things is ludicrous. US Christians converted most of the (surviving) Native Americans at the point of a gun. That doesn't make us the same as the terrorists, so we shouldn't whitewash our own history to fight against Islamic imperialism today.
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Orlando Paulitician
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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:05 pm

Cardboard_killer wrote:I agree Islamic fundamentalist invasion must be resisted, but the idea that the US has been free of such things is ludicrous. US Christians converted most of the (surviving) Native Americans at the point of a gun. That doesn't make us the same as the terrorists, so we shouldn't whitewash our own history to fight against Islamic imperialism today.
Of course the US hasn't been free of injustices.

Slavery was such an institutional bedrock of our country, that it was part of the reason we had a civil war.

Throughout American history, minorities, from the Native Americans, the Irish/Catholics, Asians, blacks, and even gays under anti-sodomy laws have experienced some form of social and governmental persecution.

But for a country that has barely existed 200 years, we've had a greater positive impact and made more progress toward the safeguarding of basic human rights than a lot of Muslim countries have, especially when you consider the fact that the ones that aren't religious theocracies are border-line failed socialist experiments.
Nathan Lewis' testimony before congress wrote: According to a study of 775 floating currencies...the average life expectancy of a floating fiat currency was found to be 27 years.
Ron Paul's Farewell Address wrote:Real patriotism is the willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong,

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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by Cardboard_killer » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:10 pm

Orlando Paulitician wrote:Of course the US hasn't been free of injustices.
That wasn't the question. The statement was that the US has never seen religious persecution and warfare like Islam. And of course it has. Saying that doesn't mean we have to roll over to islamic terrorists, it's just a statement of fact to correct the falsehood.
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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by jjk308 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:27 am

The real difference is that America is based on individual freedom and rights, regardless of deviations from those bedrock principals, and much of our history involves expanding freedom and rights for all.

Islam is based on submission to a militant theocracy. Its history consists of expansion at the expense of non-islamic nations, infighting among its sects for domination in order to spread their particular religious dogmas, and the use of religion to support totalitarian governmental systems like the Caliphates and Ottoman Empire. Rights are only those as defined by the theocracy and most Islamic scholars consider Democracy not Islamic, a transitory phase at most, just a temporary concession to Western ideologies.

If Muslims wish to drop the religious absolutism and problems inherent in their past cultural history and accept Western values, the way the Japanese dropped Bushido, then fine. If not we're stuck in a perpetual religious war.
I swear by Jupiter Optimus Maximus .... in the army of the consul Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus and for 10 miles around it I will not steal anything worth more than a sestertius in any one day.

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Orlando Paulitician
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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:57 pm

jjk308 wrote:The real difference is that America is based on individual freedom and rights, regardless of deviations from those bedrock principals, and much of our history involves expanding freedom and rights for all.

Islam is based on submission to a militant theocracy. Its history consists of expansion at the expense of non-islamic nations, infighting among its sects for domination in order to spread their particular religious dogmas, and the use of religion to support totalitarian governmental systems like the Caliphates and Ottoman Empire. Rights are only those as defined by the theocracy and most Islamic scholars consider Democracy not Islamic, a transitory phase at most, just a temporary concession to Western ideologies.
I kind of agree with this.

I don't know that I would say militant theocracy as much as I would say collective identity, to the point that the collective/religious piety of the group far outweighs the rights of the individual. In Islam, there's an extremely strong sense of the ummah, or the the collective Islamic body.

The "ummah" is what Muslims are trying to protect from both American interventionism (something I don't always agree with on fiscal and practical grounds) AND from American culture, as was the case with Sayyid Qutb. He never committed acts of terror that I can recall, but his anti-America, anti-secular philosophical preachings in Egypt, the cultural epicenter of the Islamic world, sowed the seeds for many of today's Islamic terrorists.

That's why, even the most secular, "tolerant" Muslim countries, are socialist basket cases of countries. Those who don't develop their religion of Islam merely develop a religion of government. That's why I have said probably 2 or 3 dozen times over the last half decade I've been on this forum, in addition to the threat of radical Islam (something I underestimated in the early days of my forum presence), there's also the threat of the socialist masses coming here from the Middle East and stripping us of our individual and economic freedoms when they become card carrying democrats.
If Muslims wish to drop the religious absolutism and problems inherent in their past cultural history and accept Western values, the way the
Japanese dropped Bushido, then fine. If not we're stuck in a perpetual religious war
.
See, now this is funny. I tried to compare radical Islam to Japanese kamikaze pilots to make the point that the former is way crazier than the latter. Hence, why the Japanese surrendered, and the Taliban/terrorist groups operating in Afghanistan haven't.

When I made this point, I got accused of being a liberal who talks like a politician.
Nathan Lewis' testimony before congress wrote: According to a study of 775 floating currencies...the average life expectancy of a floating fiat currency was found to be 27 years.
Ron Paul's Farewell Address wrote:Real patriotism is the willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong,

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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by jjk308 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:02 pm

Orlando Paulitician wrote:
jjk308 wrote:The real difference is that America is based on individual freedom and rights, regardless of deviations from those bedrock principals, and much of our history involves expanding freedom and rights for all.

Islam is based on submission to a militant theocracy. Its history consists of expansion at the expense of non-islamic nations, infighting among its sects for domination in order to spread their particular religious dogmas, and the use of religion to support totalitarian governmental systems like the Caliphates and Ottoman Empire. Rights are only those as defined by the theocracy and most Islamic scholars consider Democracy not Islamic, a transitory phase at most, just a temporary concession to Western ideologies.
I kind of agree with this.

I don't know that I would say militant theocracy as much as I would say collective identity, to the point that the collective/religious piety of the group far outweighs the rights of the individual. In Islam, there's an extremely strong sense of the ummah, or the the collective Islamic body.

The "ummah" is what Muslims are trying to protect from both American interventionism (something I don't always agree with on fiscal and practical grounds) AND from American culture, as was the case with Sayyid Qutb. He never committed acts of terror that I can recall, but his anti-America, anti-secular philosophical preachings in Egypt, the cultural epicenter of the Islamic world, sowed the seeds for many of today's Islamic terrorists.

That's why, even the most secular, "tolerant" Muslim countries, are socialist basket cases of countries. Those who don't develop their religion of Islam merely develop a religion of government. That's why I have said probably 2 or 3 dozen times over the last half decade I've been on this forum, in addition to the threat of radical Islam (something I underestimated in the early days of my forum presence), there's also the threat of the socialist masses coming here from the Middle East and stripping us of our individual and economic freedoms when they become card carrying democrats.
If Muslims wish to drop the religious absolutism and problems inherent in their past cultural history and accept Western values, the way the
Japanese dropped Bushido, then fine. If not we're stuck in a perpetual religious war
.
See, now this is funny. I tried to compare radical Islam to Japanese kamikaze pilots to make the point that the former is way crazier than the latter. Hence, why the Japanese surrendered, and the Taliban/terrorist groups operating in Afghanistan haven't.

When I made this point, I got accused of being a liberal who talks like a politician.
The socialism and dictators of so many Muslim nations are just an adaptation to their origins in an expansionist militarized theocracy,
Iran probably being closest to the original Caliphates, with a smattering of Democracy on top. Their history and origin is the source of their problems today and the reason they've fallen behind the developed world.
.
I swear by Jupiter Optimus Maximus .... in the army of the consul Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus and for 10 miles around it I will not steal anything worth more than a sestertius in any one day.

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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by armedpolak » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:46 pm

AirForceShooter wrote:Not sure if this belongs in this group so mods feel free to move it.

Anybody else seen it?
It's pretty disturbing in many ways and as a nam vet sort of Deja vu

AFS
watched it last night with wifey. it was OK, had some funny moments as well as some sad ones. would not watch again :/

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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by 45caldan » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:22 am

armedpolak wrote:
AirForceShooter wrote:Not sure if this belongs in this group so mods feel free to move it.

Anybody else seen it?
It's pretty disturbing in many ways and as a nam vet sort of Deja vu

AFS
watched it last night with wifey. it was OK, had some funny moments as well as some sad ones. would not watch again :/
Ok at best.
We can never "win" over there....
Agree; would not watch again...
DON'T TREAD ON ME

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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by Crashpanic » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:58 pm

AirForceShooter wrote:Not sure if this belongs in this group so mods feel free to move it.

Anybody else seen it?
It's pretty disturbing in many ways and as a nam vet sort of Deja vu

AFS
I watched it this weekend on a flight. Yeah, it was pretty disturbing. Did not enjoy.

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Re: NetFlix War Machine

Post by Crashpanic » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:23 pm

It made an enthusiastic officer eager to serve his country and bring it success look like a damned fool. I never took the privilege to serve myself but eff Rolling Stone and Hollywood. This country is not perfect but I love it. The war might have been a mistake but that's no reason to do what they did about people like those who served in it. They are killing everything that was good about America and replacing it with a self serving cynicism. f/;k these people, that's how I felt when I watched that blighted piece of left wing propaganda film.

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