Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

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Gopblin
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Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Gopblin » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:26 pm

I've been thinking about this project a while, seems like an easy&cool thing to do. It's been done a lot with Mosins up until the 40s, primarily due to lack of handguns I guess. Here's a pic of one:
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1363 ... br2hl0.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This should be about an hour of work with a saw and knife, and a beater Mosin should be easy to find. My concerns are mostly about legality of the thing, I haven't modified firearms before so I don't know the relevant laws. Can anyone tell me if this is prohibited/ what laws should I be aware of?

Thank you

Best wishes,
Daniel.

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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Odessaman » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:38 pm

No. Don't even think about it - short barreled rifles are a big no-no without proper paperwork. You want a cheap handgun? Buy a Lorcin or a Hi-Point. Should cost you less than a beater Mosin and MUCH less than the legal fees if you get caught converting one into a pistol.
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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Gopblin » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:52 pm

So how does one go about making an AK pistol or one of stick-stock ARs?

I know SBRs aren't legal, but a Mosin chopped what way wouldn't have a stock, and I guess would be no less of pistol than say any stockless AK.

The question here is if it would be legal to chop off the stock then barrel, I know just chopping off the barrel would turn it into an eevil bolt-action SBR.

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Daniel.

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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by ss1 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:01 pm

It is my understanding that if it was manufactured here or imported as a rifle, it can't be made legally into a handgun. I have no idea if there is some loophole for C&R's. I think you can go in the other direction tho as there are a few "carbine kits" for various pistols out there.

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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by TC » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:24 pm

Once a rifle, always a rifle is ATF's view. So, unless you can find a mosin receiver that you can prove has never been assembled as a rifle (good luck!), or can make a new receiver from scratch (might be a bit challenging), you'd pretty much have to make one as an SBR. I believe having been a rifle also rules out doing it as an AOW... check the Class 3 forum.

Not to mention... I'm betting a mosin pistol is not pleasant to shoot!

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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by NonConformist » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:41 pm

You can make a Pistol into a Rifle but not the other way around.
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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Zullo74 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:40 pm

If you leave the barrel 16 inches long and the entire RIFLE is at least 26 inches long, it is a legal RIFLE. As for making it shorter, forget it.
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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Quest » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:11 pm

why would you even want a bolt action pistol?? :-k
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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by HotShot308 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:03 pm

Yea, how does TC stay in business?

There are plenty of bolt pistols, but mainly for target shooting, or hunting, not really for CCW.

As others have hinted at, the reciever must have never been made into a rifle to be used as a pistol, otherwise it must be registered as a SBR. The AR and other rifle style pistols out there are made from a new reciever that has been listed as a pistol on the 4473 when originally purchased, and therefore are pistols.

Also, as others have said, if you put a 16" or longer bbl on a pistol, you can legally put a buttstock on it, then take it back off and still have a pistol, as long as you never have a buttstock on it with a bbl shorter than 16 inches. Case in point, I had a MechTec Carbine Conversion Unit for a Glock for a while, it was and still is a pistol, even with the CCU attached.
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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Gopblin » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:25 pm

I guess in that case(16' barrel, 26' overall) the whole project is rather pointless as the whole gun would only be a few inches shorter than an M38.
I still might do it, though, just for the coolness factor. The barrel in measured from the start of the rifling?

Best wishes,
Daniel.

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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Zullo74 » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:39 pm

The barrel is measured to the bolt face. Close the bolt and then stick a cleaning rod down the bore until it stops at the bolt face. Mark the rod at the muzzle. Withdraw the rod and measure from the mark to the end of the rod. That is the way BATF measures barrel length. The chamber is part of the barrel.

BTW, I don't see the "coolness factor" in this at all!
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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Gopblin » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:03 pm

If you don't see the coolness factor, you probably never fired a Mosin with one hand, something I've been known to do :)

I know this is not effective, but it is both historically accurate and makes a big bang. Peasants made tens if not hundreds of thousands of chopped Mosins during the civil war.

In fact, Russian troops frequently refer to AKSUs (Krinkovs) as "peasant's dream", meaning it's a crappy chopped gun but hey at least it's small.

Best wishes,
Daniel.

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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by FDE007 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:33 pm

I am unfamiliar with the Fla State laws; so there's no way the OP can file NFA papers to make an SBR?
I agree the 7.62x54R doesn't come to mind as an ideal pistol round.
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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Rentprop1 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:41 am

bumping this ...........cause as I keep finding more and more info on it, I still want one so bad
.
http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/at ... 1263948562" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and some more info : from another site
There was an actual Mosin Nagant "pistol" called the Obrez. It was used by the Polish guerrillas when the Germans occupied Poland. Not a stealth weapon but concealable firepower.
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http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/attach ... -obrez.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Pinoy Photog » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:23 pm

Steve MacQueen's Josh Randall character (in the TV series "Wanted: Dead or Alive" would have wanted one! :)
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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Gopblin » Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:11 am

I was just thinking... What about an antique?

Yeah I know its evil to destroy 110 year old rifle that way, but if you were to find one with a badly damaged barrel this might actually make it shootable again. AFAIK it's not considered a firearm in the first place regardless of modification... Would modifying still be illegal?

Just googled this, still confused, seems it could go either way - the answer depends on the mood of the ATF agent you're asking.

Best wishes,
Daniel

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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Rentprop1 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:35 am

you could always make a dummy gun, but I want a working copy [smilie=011.gif]

I have kept an SKS receiver and separate barrel for a SKS pistol project for a while now, just in case they might ever change the " once a rifle, always a rifle law "
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Sykotic 101 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:41 pm

Rent,
Obrez means "chopper" in Russian, as in " chopped down." They had no access to pistols, so a last-resort pistol was anything they could make work. Cut-down shotguns were called the same, and still are to this day. They are very popular with the current breed of gangsters in Mother Russia. Just a useless bit of info.
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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Rentprop1 » Fri May 31, 2013 11:58 pm

BUMPING THIS very old topic because Flem from Red Jacket ( will he hasn't left yet on the show [smilie=033.gif] ) just made one [smilie=pdt_xtremez_30.gif]
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In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: Is it legal to turn a Mosin rifle into a pistol?

Post by Sweep » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:10 am

yeh theres a thread on the weapons guild that covers this type build called a obrez 3 or 4 guys have done one so far and hes one of the posters there
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