SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post Reply
User avatar
Orlando Paulitician
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 4243
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: Seminole County, South Jersey

SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:29 pm

Any other members of SCGAA here?

I went to a public day today with a friend (ironically, a Sanford cop who's only free time during the week was during this morning's public day hours) and then preceded to stay till about 5PM by myself.

Some random SCSO deputy (a hefty guy, one of the regulars SCGAA hires to keep the public in line) came up to me and told me I was breaking the club rules by firing an SBR at the plinking range. Ok.......not what the SCGAA rulebook says, but ok.

None of the RSOs corrected him, and I didn't have rulebook on me, so I deferred to, "Well, the RSO's didn't say anything to me."

Anybody know who the guy is?
Nathan Lewis' testimony before congress wrote: According to a study of 775 floating currencies...the average life expectancy of a floating fiat currency was found to be 27 years.
Ron Paul's Farewell Address wrote:Real patriotism is the willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong,

User avatar
cwt7691
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:31 am
Location: Orlando FL
Contact:

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by cwt7691 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:49 pm

Non members are not afforded the use of any range with Class 3, SBR's or AOW on Public Day.
It has been like that since Public days where started decades ago and forward. Private Range and Private rules. Join the Range and you can shoot anything you have BATFE paperwork with said firearm.
The Deputy is doing what SCGAA has requested period. (enforcing club rules) The member rule book has clearly stated these are not allowed on public day. If you are a member you can always bring a complaint to the SCGAA Board of Directors. They will be more than glad to get you a copy of the rules and explain them. The off Duty Deputies have many years working at the Range and well versed in the rules. They are asked by the RSO's to do exactly as requested to enforce the club rules.
Safe and fun shooting..........Enjoy the range it is a great place

You can contact the Board of Directors @ SCGAA.org
Semper Fi

3% with or against us, no quarter period!

"I, ANY VET, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; I don't recall a expiration date on oath

User avatar
macattack321
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 820
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Brevard County, FL

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by macattack321 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:16 am

My dad has been a member there for pushing 20 years, and we've never been bothered about our NFA stuff.

It sounded to me like the OP stayed past the public day hours (12:00 IIRC) and got hassled.

User avatar
Orlando Paulitician
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 4243
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: Seminole County, South Jersey

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:21 am

cwt7691 wrote:Non members are not afforded the use of any range with Class 3, SBR's or AOW on Public Day.
It has been like that since Public days where started decades ago and forward. Private Range and Private rules. Join the Range and you can shoot anything you have BATFE paperwork with said firearm.
The Deputy is doing what SCGAA has requested period. (enforcing club rules) The member rule book has clearly stated these are not allowed on public day. You can contact the Board of Directors @ SCGAA.org
I read the rule book when I got back to my car. I have 3 copies, one in my car, one at home (and now one right next to my SBR paperwork). It says Full Auto is not allowed on Public Day.

It makes no mention of SBR's being prohibited.
Nathan Lewis' testimony before congress wrote: According to a study of 775 floating currencies...the average life expectancy of a floating fiat currency was found to be 27 years.
Ron Paul's Farewell Address wrote:Real patriotism is the willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong,

User avatar
Orlando Paulitician
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 4243
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: Seminole County, South Jersey

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:26 am

if the RSO is enforcing club rules, how come those rules don't exist in the rule book, and the RSO's never said a word to me?

I'm not completely sure the board is aware that the deputies they hire to enforce the rules are making the rules up as they go....
macattack321 wrote:My dad has been a member there for pushing 20 years, and we've never been bothered about our NFA stuff.

It sounded to me like the OP stayed past the public day hours (12:00 IIRC) and got hassled.
Nope, the cop confronted me DURING Public day hours (approximately 10:30).

And YES, I did stay past public day hours, BECAUSE I'm a MEMBER, who was wearing a lanyard ID.

As I said, the only reason I went to public day hours to begin with, is it was the only time my friend's schedule would allow for it.

Back to my original question: anyone know who the deputy is?
Nathan Lewis' testimony before congress wrote: According to a study of 775 floating currencies...the average life expectancy of a floating fiat currency was found to be 27 years.
Ron Paul's Farewell Address wrote:Real patriotism is the willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong,

CFGunworks
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:44 am

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by CFGunworks » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:04 am

Good morning,

My name is Greg Luge, and I am the "hefty" (thank you for the compliment) off duty Deputy that was working the detail. I have been working this detail for close to 10 years. In addition to being one of the two regular deputies that work the detail, I am also a member of the club. I am sorry if I embarrassed you in front of your SPD friend, however perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the "Public Day Rules" as established by the board. I work Public Day at their will, and enforce the rules they set forth. Because you are a member and were all the way at the end of the plinking range, I granted you a courtesy and did not eject you from the range.

Thank you,

User avatar
Orlando Paulitician
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 4243
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: Seminole County, South Jersey

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:10 am

CFGunworks wrote:Good morning,

My name is Greg Luge, and I am the "hefty" (thank you for the compliment)
I'm a hefty one myself :ber .
off duty Deputy that was working the detail. I have been working this detail for close to 10 years. In addition to being one of the two regular deputies that work the detail, I am also a member of the club. I am sorry if I embarrassed you in front of your SPD friend, however perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the "Public Day Rules" as established by the board. I work Public Day at their will, and enforce the rules they set forth. Because you are a member and were all the way at the end of the plinking range, I granted you a courtesy and did not eject you from the range.

Thank you,
Good to hear from you Greg.

Were the rules updated since I last got my rulebook? Because according to #5 of B. Plinking Range, on the front of the third page, it reads

"5. No full auto is permitted on Public Day until after 2 p.m. *NOTE* the plinking Range is the ONLY Range where Class 3 and Rapid Fire is allowed or permitted".

Perhaps I overlooked the rule you are specifically referring to when you said SBR's are not allowed on the plinking range.

If no such rule exists, I don't see how you were paying me a courtesy for not ejecting me from a range for a rule I didn't break...

And if I was breaking a rule, I'm just curious why the RSOs didn't say anything to me about it.
Nathan Lewis' testimony before congress wrote: According to a study of 775 floating currencies...the average life expectancy of a floating fiat currency was found to be 27 years.
Ron Paul's Farewell Address wrote:Real patriotism is the willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong,

User avatar
cwt7691
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:31 am
Location: Orlando FL
Contact:

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by cwt7691 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:43 pm

The term " Full Auto" is a generic term used in the rules and by laws of the club that encompasses any title 3 firearm. This has been discussed at meetings for decades....Go to the member meeting and the BOD and members can explain it to you with great enthusiasm as in the past with this topic. Membership rules only apply after 1pm on public day and the public day rules can change on a moment's notice with no warning for members and non members. The GIFT of public does indeed effect member rules for 5 hours a month 12 times a year. That is why most members that don't volunteer as Rso's (very few) wait until 1pm.

Just let it go.................Have fun all those other days.......
Semper Fi

3% with or against us, no quarter period!

"I, ANY VET, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; I don't recall a expiration date on oath

User avatar
joker223
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:34 pm
Location: Lake Mary, FL

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by joker223 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:43 pm

OH boy...... I've been a member for quite a few years and this came up at a meeting I attended 15 years ago --like CWT stated above.

Why they just don't re write it --is beyond me. CWT is an expert on club matters for sure.

And--For someone to come on here and state that a member needs to "familiarize" himself with the rules (which clearly state full auto with no mention of SBRs or supressors) is ridiculous. . And even more ---did someone a favor and didn't eject him lol! The OP was following the rules as they are written.

I carry a printed copy of the rules when I go out there. I witnessed a small problem once, and it was solved instantly. This would not have been a solvable matter at the time, I'm afraid.

I really like SCGAA and recommend it to anyone wanting a safe place to shoot. The only thing that I didn't like was when the shotgun range got closed down (but it saved me a lot of $$$ in the long run hahahaha)
Last edited by joker223 on Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Orlando Paulitician
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 4243
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: Seminole County, South Jersey

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:18 pm

cwt7691 wrote:The term " Full Auto" is a generic term used in the rules and by laws of the club that encompasses any title 3 firearm. This has been discussed at meetings for decades....Go to the member meeting and the BOD and members can explain it to you with great enthusiasm as in the past with this topic. Membership rules only apply after 1pm on public day and the public day rules can change on a moment's notice with no warning for members and non members. The GIFT of public does indeed effect member rules for 5 hours a month 12 times a year. That is why most members that don't volunteer as Rso's (very few) wait until 1pm.

Just let it go.................Have fun all those other days.......
Reasonable explanation, though I never would have interpreted "Full Auto" that way. Agreed, Public Day hours even affect members, and that's why every time an RSO did talk to me, I listened. I would never have gleaned "SBR" from "Full Auto". I'd much rather prefer wording like "Full Auto and ALL OTHER NFA Items", rather than just "Full Auto".

And what's more, the RSO's, probably 2 or 3 of them, saw me with the SBR, asked about it's caliber, asked me if I built it or bought it. They never once said, "Can you wait till after Public Day to shoot it". Neither did any of the RSOs say, "I'll let you shoot today, but just as a forewarning for the future, I know the rules only say "Full Auto", but the officers interpret that as meaning all NFA items"

If they had asked, it wouldn't have been a problem to me, I could just have easily pulled out my Garand or full sized AR and shot those instead.

From my perspective, with the knowledge I had (the rule book, and only a handful of meetings the topic of which was about making lightening strike infrastructure improvements and the passing of the recent president, and not the interpretations of "Full Auto"), and the fact that the RSO's didn't have a problem, I didn't know there was a problem.

[smilie=cheers1.gif]
Nathan Lewis' testimony before congress wrote: According to a study of 775 floating currencies...the average life expectancy of a floating fiat currency was found to be 27 years.
Ron Paul's Farewell Address wrote:Real patriotism is the willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong,

User avatar
dieselbeef
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 3312
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: myakka city

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by dieselbeef » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:05 am

I dot know or care as I have no idea where this range even is but. Why is an sbr different than shooting an uzi maybe or a carbine ar? Suppose I had a sw 500 with an 8" barrel. I don't understand
im the other gary...

"The right and the decision to carry a weapon for your own defense is a horrible blessing".

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
einstein

User avatar
Orlando Paulitician
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 4243
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: Seminole County, South Jersey

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:41 pm

dieselbeef wrote:I dot know or care as I have no idea where this range even is but. Why is an sbr different than shooting an uzi maybe or a carbine ar? Suppose I had a sw 500 with an 8" barrel. I don't understand
From a safety and liability standpoint, I concur.

I see the logic in why any range would prohibit FA use during a public day.

FA's have the inherent risk of "running away" on an undertrained/untrained or careless user. That risk and liability is compounded in the presence of large crowds (i.e., public days).

SBR's have no such risk. That's why I didn't interpret SBR (or suppressed for that matter) from the word "Full Auto". Especially since the rule then goes on to use "Class 3" weapon, which IS an actual generic term meaning both FA's and SBR's.

The fact that they used Class 3 as a generic term, made me think they were using "Full Auto" to specifically refer to Full Auto, lol.

Horribly written rule if it means what cwt claims it does.
Nathan Lewis' testimony before congress wrote: According to a study of 775 floating currencies...the average life expectancy of a floating fiat currency was found to be 27 years.
Ron Paul's Farewell Address wrote:Real patriotism is the willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong,

User avatar
firemedic2000
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 4472
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:14 pm
Location: Tampa Bay Area

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by firemedic2000 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:29 pm

I'm not a member there either. But I love the phrase. " I work Public Day at their will, and enforce the rules they set forth. Because you are a member and were all the way at the end of the plinking range, I granted you a courtesy and did not eject you from the range. " you had a rule book and the rule book stated NO FULL AUTO I have never in my life ever heard of a SBR or suppressors being called or even referred to in the same category as a FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPON. Sure all three are NFA items but totally different puppies.

You had a rule book and it stated NO FULL AUTO. It did not say anything about short barreled rifles or suppressors. As you stated if the rule book stated NO NFA ITEMS then that would have covered everything. But FULL AUTO is just that, a FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPON but as the off duty LEO stated he did you a favor by not kicking you out. The off duty LEO assumed you did not know the rules. Even though you were a member.

Even though you had read the actual rule book you had in your vehicle before shooting. The problem here is even if you'd showed him the rule book to contest what he was saying about FULL AUTO and Short Barrel Rifle not being the same thing. You'd lost and probably gotten evicted for being right. Even though it was clearly in writing.

Oh someone here had to have told him also about you posting this about him. Join date is the day after you posted this. Somebody here squealed on you to him. [smilie=011.gif] unbelievable. That's why he came here and made that comment that he did you a favor by being a member and not knowing the rules. Remember tattletales when you were a kid in school [smilie=033.gif] .......even though you had 3 copies of the rule book and was not shooting a FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPON. I think people that enforce rules need a better understanding of what Full Auto, SBR and Suppressors actually are. Either that or rewrite the rule book they hand out to members with the correct interpretation of NFA ITEMS in it.

Not bust on this cop just his commit. My brothers a sheriff and I'm retired Firefighter and are both ex Army Rangers.

The RSO should have handle this not the cop. That was their job hence Range Safety Officer. They should be enforcing rules. Not a off duty cop. Unless the cop is working as a RSO. If the cop is security. This was not a security matter. You were not causing a scene, fighting, shooting up the place ect.

I have no money on this. It's just the commit made and the fact you had read the rules and it was assumed you did not. It seems a lot of that happens lately. People with a badge do not like to be corrected or proven wrong. They will put you in your place real fast even if they are wrong.

You handled it correctly by not trying to correct the off duty officer. You'd just made him mad even if you had the rule book and read it and showed it to him. The officer would have ejected you on principal alone. You don't argue with a cop even if he's wrong and you did read the rule book. The old adage power corrupts.
Last edited by firemedic2000 on Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ranger Airborne, Firefighter, Oath Keeper, NRA If you support Terrorist including not protesting their actions or defending their rights you are my enemy
Energetically will I meet the enemies of The Constitution and Bill of Rights both foreign and domestic. I shall defeat them on the field of battle and totally and utterly destroy them

Gregg
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 12:35 pm
Location: Central Brevard

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by Gregg » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:51 pm

I'm a long time member, and this is why I avoid Public Day.

In general, the club is very good, and there are really few rules.
The "Rules" are for the most part just common sense, and are not really bad rules.

But the club has always had a bad habit of changing or revising the rules without letting its members know of the rule change.
Unless you were at the meeting when the rule was changed, you would likely not know about it until a ROS informed you you were breaking the rules.
I know, as I was caught a couple times over the years for breaking a new or modified rule I knew nothing about.
At the time, I was doing exactly what I had done many times before, totally within the Club's Rules as I knew them.

Come to the Members Meetings was always Club Board's answer, but that is often not an option for many members.
I live over by the space center, and it is a three hour round trip drive in the evening to attend a Member's Meeting in Sanford, plus the time spent at the meeting.
I'm sorry, but I can not get off work at the space center at 5 pm, and make a meeting in Sandford, and then get home at 11 pm and be in the office at 7 am the next day.
They used to hold Members Meetings at 1 pm on Public Day (I know this to be a fact, as I appealed my rule infraction each time at these Public Day Meetings), and I really do not know if they still do so or not, as I have not attended a Public Day in many years.

It has only been within the last year the rules are posted on the Members Only section of the Club's web site.
At least that is a positive change for the better.

As to the subject of this tread; the "Rules" say "No Full Auto" during Public Day hours.
Full Auto has "ZERO" to do with SBR, SBS or Cans.

I concur in that a Club RSO should have handled this issue, not a Security Guard.

Regards;
Gregg

User avatar
#1Glock30
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:04 pm
Location: West Lake County

Re: SCGAA and their off-duty SCSO deputies

Post by #1Glock30 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:35 am

So Greg, GFGunworks, welcome to FSN! Regardless of why you joined, just to explain your actions or whatever, I hope you will become an active member by throwing in your two cents now and then. Most of these guys would give you the shirt off their back to help you. If not, oh well have a good one and thanks for your service.
/:f
SHTF Ready

Post Reply