The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

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lakelandman
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The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by lakelandman » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:27 pm

https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... ng-defect/
The U.S. Army’s standard service weapon, the M4A1 carbine, has a defect that allows it to discharge a round without actually pulling the trigger. The flaw was caught on video earlier this year by a soldier at a shooting range, and testing by the Army has detected nearly a thousand weapons affected by the problem.

In March, according to Stars and Stripes, a soldier recorded cellphone video of his M4A1 carbine discharging a round after the selector switch was moved. The selector switch on the M4A1 allows the user to engage the weapon safety (“SAFE”), preventing it from firing, firing semi-automatic (“SEMI”), or firing fully automatic (“AUTO”).

In the video, the soldier moves the selector switch between SEMI and AUTO. When the soldier further moves the switch to AUTO the hammer falls, sending the bolt carrier group flying forward and firing a bullet. Needless to say, the only time weapon should ever go off is when the trigger is pressed and this situation has the potential to be very dangerous.

Army Times says the Army has warned troops of the problem and is requiring them to perform a function check on their (unloaded) carbines to see if they can duplicate the error. If moving the selector switch without pulling the trigger causes the hammer to fall, the weapon is defective. At least 881 weapons or approximately ten percent of those checked have exhibited the problem and the Army extended the warning to older M4 carbines, M16A2, M16A3, and M16A4 rifles.

The Army recently started a conversion program designed to improve M4 carbines, upgrading them to the -A1 standard. The new M4A1 has ambidextrous controls, a heavier barrel, and a new trigger control group. The old trigger control group gave soldiers the choice of firing semi-automatic or three round burst. The new trigger group deletes the three round burst capability and adds full-auto fire.

It’s not clear that the new trigger group is responsible for the problem, however, especially since the Army has extended testing to older weapons. The problem may actually be much older but has just escaped detection. There is no practical purpose in placing the selector switch between settings.
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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by N4KVE » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:05 pm

So is this for Colt, or FN weapons? GARY

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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by SteyrAUG » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:51 pm

First problem I see is "sending the bolt carrier group flying forward and firing a bullet" it should already be forward before you start moving the selector.
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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by N4KVE » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:12 am

I thought about that too, unless they mean the carrier is back after the last round in the mag was fired, a new full mag is inserted, and then when moving the safety while the carrier is still back, it flies forward, & fires the gun. I’m not buying it. GARY.

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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by Dr. Dickie » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:17 am

N4KVE wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:12 am
I thought about that too, unless they mean the carrier is back after the last round in the mag was fired, a new full mag is inserted, and then when moving the safety while the carrier is still back, it flies forward, & fires the gun. I’m not buying it. GARY.
You can't get the safety into the safe position if the carrier is back can you? Maybe just going from semi to auto. Don't know about that.
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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by Rentprop1 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:53 am

Waiting with bated breath to see all of the AR experts come out of the woodwork on this one.....lol [smilie=011.gif]
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by Casual » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:50 am

Rentprop1 wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:53 am
Waiting with bated breath to see all of the AR experts come out of the woodwork on this one.....lol [smilie=011.gif]
And yet here you are, carpenter tool belt and all
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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by jjk308 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:17 am

I swear by Jupiter Optimus Maximus .... in the army of the consul Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus and for 10 miles around it I will not steal anything worth more than a sestertius in any one day.

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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by AirForceShooter » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:19 am

50 years later and still a piece of junk.

Got one in '68 and tossed it.
Never touched one since.
I mean literally never touched one

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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by g.willikers » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:20 am

Time to reissue the M1?
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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by Skoll » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:34 am

g.willikers wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:20 am
Time to reissue the M1?
Image

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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by N4KVE » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:43 am

g.willikers wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:20 am
Time to reissue the M1?
No. Get an AK. It’s a Timex watch. Always works. GARY.

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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by zeebaron » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:59 am

N4KVE wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:43 am
g.willikers wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:20 am
Time to reissue the M1?
No. Get an AK. It’s a Timex watch. Always works. GARY.
It's too bad they're not very accurate (from experience owning a Chinese and two factory assembled Arsenal Bulgarians), because they're the only autoloading rifles I've owned that never had a malfunction...even when dirty and un-lubed.

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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by Skoll » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:03 am

zeebaron wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:59 am
N4KVE wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:43 am
g.willikers wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:20 am
Time to reissue the M1?
No. Get an AK. It’s a Timex watch. Always works. GARY.
It's too bad they're not very accurate (from experience owning a Chinese and two factory assembled Arsenal Bulgarians), because they're the only autoloading rifles I've owned that never had a malfunction...even when dirty and un-lubed.
Depends what distance you're shooting at, if you're using an AKM or a 74. I've heard the "AKs arent accurate" trope a lot and I've seen it disproven even more times. Yeah, they're never going to be as accurate as a purpose built AR, but as a battle rifle that'd been in continuous use since the 40s, I'd say it still gets the job done. Supposedly the newer AK-12s that Russia is issuing now have all sorts of modernization like free floating barrels, integrated railed dust covers, etc.
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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by jjk308 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:43 am

AKs are inherently inaccurate because of the long relatively flexible receiver and heavy bolt + carrier group. Machined receivers help some but are heavier and more expensive.

ARs aren't perfect but it's been the standard service rifle for 50 years because nobody's come up with an affordable improvement. I've always thought the 5.56 x 45 round was too wimpy and not lethal enough except in the original 55 gr. bullet at short ranges but numerous attempts at either better rounds or a stronger platform like the AR10 have failed to gain approval.
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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by Rentprop1 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:07 pm

This Thread just continues to get better and better ](*,)
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by TC6969 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:00 pm

Rentprop1 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:07 pm
This Thread just continues to get better and better ](*,)
Oh, come on!

We haven't even got to "Tumbling bullet" and "designed to wound" yet! [smilie=011.gif]
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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by Gregh181 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:44 pm

I blame the Army. Marines would never have this problem [smilie=popcorn.gif]
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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by Skoll » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:48 pm

TC6969 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:00 pm
Rentprop1 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:07 pm
This Thread just continues to get better and better ](*,)
Oh, come on!

We haven't even got to "Tumbling bullet" and "designed to wound" yet! [smilie=011.gif]
Pfft. I'm just saying AKs aren't as shitty as everyone loves to say. Not going to get all autistic about it like the other guy.
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Re: The Army’s M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

Post by Jim » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:44 pm

Oh, come on!

We haven't even got to "Tumbling bullet" and "designed to wound" yet! [smilie=011.gif]
[/quote]
I remember the designed to wound statement from when I was in the Army.
" If you shoot and kill an enemy soldier they will just replace him with another soldier, but if you wound an enemy soldier
it takes 5 people to care for 1 wounded soldier." #-o

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