Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

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g.willikers
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Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by g.willikers » Tue May 22, 2018 2:23 pm

Our civil war, naturally.
Here's the surprise answer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Palmito_Ranch
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by Skoll » Tue May 22, 2018 2:56 pm

Does it matter who won the last battle when everyone knows who lost that war?
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by Dave P » Tue May 22, 2018 4:10 pm

"Does it matter who won the last battle when everyone knows who lost that war?"

Sound like you don't have any sympathy/understanding about the South being invaded by the yankees, and what we were fighting for.
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by Skoll » Tue May 22, 2018 4:27 pm

Considering I'm not a Southerner, you'd be correct.
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by REDinFL » Tue May 22, 2018 4:32 pm

Speed of communications, lack thereof. Similar, though a different outcome, to the Battle of New Orleans in the war of 1812.
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by Gmountain » Tue May 22, 2018 5:55 pm

Dave P wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 4:10 pm
"Does it matter who won the last battle when everyone knows who lost that war?"

Sound like you don't have any sympathy/understanding about the South being invaded by the yankees, and what we were fighting for.
If you were fighting for anything, you'd be at least 168 years old.

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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by Skoll » Tue May 22, 2018 5:58 pm

Gmountain wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:55 pm
Dave P wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 4:10 pm
"Does it matter who won the last battle when everyone knows who lost that war?"

Sound like you don't have any sympathy/understanding about the South being invaded by the yankees, and what we were fighting for.
If you were fighting for anything, you'd be at least 168 years old.
He's fighting for that bullshit heritage not hate trope that people use to deflect the fact that their great grandparents were traitors, I guess.
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by Taco » Tue May 22, 2018 6:45 pm

Skoll wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:58 pm
Gmountain wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:55 pm
Dave P wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 4:10 pm
"Does it matter who won the last battle when everyone knows who lost that war?"

Sound like you don't have any sympathy/understanding about the South being invaded by the yankees, and what we were fighting for.
If you were fighting for anything, you'd be at least 168 years old.
He's fighting for that bullshit heritage not hate trope that people use to deflect the fact that their great grandparents were traitors, I guess.
And 100 years earlier their great great grandparents were traitors to the crown.

Read what was said in the Declaration. If the government isn't meeting your needs, you may need to make another one.

Forget the heritage/hate thing. The South wanted to run things their way, so they said sorry Union- we're out. The Northern states had no right to invade.
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by Gmountain » Tue May 22, 2018 6:49 pm

Taco wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 6:45 pm
Skoll wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:58 pm
Gmountain wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:55 pm
Dave P wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 4:10 pm
"Does it matter who won the last battle when everyone knows who lost that war?"

Sound like you don't have any sympathy/understanding about the South being invaded by the yankees, and what we were fighting for.
If you were fighting for anything, you'd be at least 168 years old.
He's fighting for that bullshit heritage not hate trope that people use to deflect the fact that their great grandparents were traitors, I guess.
And 100 years earlier their great great grandparents were traitors to the crown.

Read what was said in the Declaration. If the government isn't meeting your needs, you may need to make another one.

Forget the heritage/hate thing. The South wanted to run things their way, so they said sorry Union- we're out. The Northern states had no right to invade.
The south was only a separate country in their own minds. The north didn't invade the south, the US Army put down a rebellion.

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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by Cloaked Dagger » Tue May 22, 2018 7:33 pm

Gmountain wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 6:49 pm
Taco wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 6:45 pm
Skoll wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:58 pm
Gmountain wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:55 pm


If you were fighting for anything, you'd be at least 168 years old.
He's fighting for that bullshit heritage not hate trope that people use to deflect the fact that their great grandparents were traitors, I guess.
And 100 years earlier their great great grandparents were traitors to the crown.

Read what was said in the Declaration. If the government isn't meeting your needs, you may need to make another one.

Forget the heritage/hate thing. The South wanted to run things their way, so they said sorry Union- we're out. The Northern states had no right to invade.
The south was only a separate country in their own minds. The north didn't invade the south, the US Army put down a rebellion.
And the brits would be saying the same thing about us and the royal army had they won that war war that started in 1775 in Concord.

Not saying the south was right or wrong, merely pointing out that history is written by the victors and in their favor.
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by Gregh181 » Tue May 22, 2018 8:19 pm

Have some respect for the south, they were all Americans in the end
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by Taco » Tue May 22, 2018 8:33 pm

Gmountain wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 6:49 pm
Taco wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 6:45 pm
Skoll wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:58 pm
Gmountain wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:55 pm


If you were fighting for anything, you'd be at least 168 years old.
He's fighting for that bullshit heritage not hate trope that people use to deflect the fact that their great grandparents were traitors, I guess.
And 100 years earlier their great great grandparents were traitors to the crown.

Read what was said in the Declaration. If the government isn't meeting your needs, you may need to make another one.

Forget the heritage/hate thing. The South wanted to run things their way, so they said sorry Union- we're out. The Northern states had no right to invade.
The south was only a separate country in their own minds. The north didn't invade the south, the US Army put down a rebellion.
It certainly seemed like a separate county. They had a government set up, a standing army, a set of laws, currency. Much more like a country than at separation from the crown. I concede that we're probably not going to agree.

My last point is to refer you to the wise words in declaration of independence.
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by Skoll » Tue May 22, 2018 9:21 pm

I think the topic of the CSA is going to be nothing but a divisive issue and that it's fair to say that if you weren't born in the South, you're probably not going to have those sympathies.

While I certainly have no love for my home state of NY, I personally find supporting the old Confederacy is only good if you want to piss some people off.
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Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by dammitgriff » Wed May 23, 2018 4:43 am

Skoll wrote:Does it matter who won the last battle when everyone knows who lost that war?
Both sides lost, judging by the mess America finds itself in today.
Secession is again on the table to solve our many differences.
Ironic.
R/Griff

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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by wolfdog » Wed May 23, 2018 5:29 am

Do any of you know the main reason that the Union did not want the South to exit the Union?
90 percent of the tax base used to fund the Federal Government was the South's ag industry both on the export of cotton, corn, tobacco, whiskey, hemp and import of those things they could not produce for themselves. The Union with its larger population and industrial base made sure the Federal taxes did not effect them, the export of finished goods was not taxed and of course they things they imported from the South were not taxed which allowed them to produce finished goods at high profit some of which was sold to the South.
There are other reasons that had effect of course but this was the main one as far as the Federal Government was concerned. The slavery issue was what they used to stir up the unwashed rabble.
And before one of you Yankees calls me a redneck I was born and raised in Michigan and moved South in my 20s. But I am literate and have not confined my reading history to a 3rd grade textbook. Try reading some of the letters and journals of the leaders of the time. The information is out there and much more accessible then when I read most of it.
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Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by dammitgriff » Wed May 23, 2018 5:36 am

Congrats, wolfdog!
Lincoln was a son of a bitch, to put it mildly.
Anyone interested in reading up on what a two-faced son of a bitch Lincoln was should pick up a copy of Thomas DiLorenzo’s “Lincoln Unmasked” and “The Real Lincoln”.
We were fed a ton of lies in public school and that tradition continues to this day.
R/Griff
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by Taco » Wed May 23, 2018 5:42 am

Skoll wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:21 pm
I think the topic of the CSA is going to be nothing but a divisive issue and that it's fair to say that if you weren't born in the South, you're probably not going to have those sympathies.

While I certainly have no love for my home state of NY, I personally find supporting the old Confederacy is only good if you want to piss some people off.
Before you get too far, I'm also for NY, a couple miles outside Queens. Didn't get down here until after college.

I don't fly the Rebel flag. The meaning of the flag has been usurped by unapologetic racists and those that wish to veil racism. It's not worth alienating people at first glance and trying to explain later the reason. This also isn't the first topic I bring up in a conversation.

It's clear that the southern states had every right to succeed for the Union. The modern narrative from the north is it was about ending slavery. The narrative from the south is it was about taxes and the destruction of their lives and livelihood.

For me, it doesn't matter. The south decided that the union did not represent their interests and values and wanted out. They decided to rule themselves, set up a replacement government, and left the union. The north decided to invade, and that was wrong.
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by Skoll » Wed May 23, 2018 6:07 am

Taco wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 5:42 am
Skoll wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:21 pm
I think the topic of the CSA is going to be nothing but a divisive issue and that it's fair to say that if you weren't born in the South, you're probably not going to have those sympathies.

While I certainly have no love for my home state of NY, I personally find supporting the old Confederacy is only good if you want to piss some people off.

For me, it doesn't matter. The south decided that the union did not represent their interests and values and wanted out. They decided to rule themselves, set up a replacement government, and left the union. The north decided to invade, and that was wrong.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but once a State becomes a State, they agree to in perpetuity, right? That means they don't have the right to leave. While the Constitution doesn't necessarily have a blueprint for secession, I believed the supposedly agreed on procedure would be a Constitutional convention and ratification by the other States. You could say that the North was right in protecting its assets with the way South Carolina unilaterally left the Union.
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by n0rlf » Wed May 23, 2018 6:19 am

Skoll wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 6:07 am
Taco wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 5:42 am
Skoll wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:21 pm
I think the topic of the CSA is going to be nothing but a divisive issue and that it's fair to say that if you weren't born in the South, you're probably not going to have those sympathies.

While I certainly have no love for my home state of NY, I personally find supporting the old Confederacy is only good if you want to piss some people off.

For me, it doesn't matter. The south decided that the union did not represent their interests and values and wanted out. They decided to rule themselves, set up a replacement government, and left the union. The north decided to invade, and that was wrong.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but once a State becomes a State, they agree to in perpetuity, right? That means they don't have the right to leave. While the Constitution doesn't necessarily have a blueprint for secession, I believed the supposedly agreed on procedure would be a Constitutional convention and ratification by the other States. You could say that the North was right in protecting its assets with the way South Carolina unilaterally left the Union.
With no blueprint and supposedly agreed to, who agreed? I am not a constitutional scholar but I do not remember anything about perpetuity for statehood.

Could be but then it would not just be an agreed upon issue. So in either case and as usual it was not handled well. There were valid reasons for the South to do as they did as have been posted here.

It is always a hot issue though and has been debated over and over ad nauseum. No one will ever change their minds based on a discussion here though.

It is one of those topics that tends to get people riled up. Like blond or brunette which everyone knows is redhead.
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Re: Which side won the last battle of the Civil War.

Post by jjk308 » Wed May 23, 2018 7:45 am

Gmountain wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:55 pm
Dave P wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 4:10 pm

He's fighting for that bullshit heritage not hate trope that people use to deflect the fact that their great grandparents were traitors, I guess.
Read what was said in the Declaration. If the government isn't meeting your needs, you may need to make another one.

Forget the heritage/hate thing. The South wanted to run things their way, so they said sorry Union- we're out. The Northern states had no right to invade.
First of all they weren't traitors because up until the 14th Amendment of 1868 everyone was a citizen of their state, primarily. Official federal documents pre Civil War stated that "The United States Are..." niot "The United States is..." The 14th Amendment made Americans citizens of the USA and of their state.

And second, there are NO PROVISIONS IN THE CONSTITUTION FOR SECESSION! The South would have had to propose and get ratified an Amendment setting up their separate country. The ruling class of the South refused to follow the law or work out a political solution so instead they illegally rebelled. And got whupped as they deserved. The rebellion was just as inherently STUPID as the Japanese attack on the USA in 1941 because the North was far stronger in industry and manpower while the South, having invested so heavily in slave worked agriculture, couldn't raise enough soldiers or equip them.
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