Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

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Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by camacho » Mon May 14, 2018 4:57 pm


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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by UnderdogII » Mon May 14, 2018 9:02 pm

Corey Jones (February 3, 1984 – October 18, 2015) was an African-American man who was shot by a plainclothes police officer while waiting by his disabled car in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. On June 1, 2016, the officer who shot Jones, Nouman K. Raja, was charged with manslaughter and attempted murder.

This case has a significant outcome possibly on SYG law.
We'll see. Raja is invoking his SYG rights.

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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by cubanstang50 » Tue May 15, 2018 10:09 am

UnderdogII wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:02 pm
Corey Jones (February 3, 1984 – October 18, 2015) was an African-American man who was shot by a plainclothes police officer while waiting by his disabled car in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. On June 1, 2016, the officer who shot Jones, Nouman K. Raja, was charged with manslaughter and attempted murder.

This case has a significant outcome possibly on SYG law.
We'll see. Raja is invoking his SYG rights.
Yes, this case will be interesting to see the outcome. I dont see how he can use the SYG law but we do not know all of the details.
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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by Skoll » Tue May 15, 2018 10:22 am

Don't cops already have a form of SYG under FL law? I mean, LEOs have some of the most and unbalanced legal protections nationwide out of anyone.
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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by FSUnoles » Tue May 15, 2018 8:45 pm

Skoll wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:22 am
Don't cops already have a form of SYG under FL law? I mean, LEOs have some of the most and unbalanced legal protections nationwide out of anyone.
Held to the same standard as your average joe. Objective reasonableness based on the totality of the circumstances. All police involved shootings in broward usually go to a grand jury.

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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by Skoll » Wed May 16, 2018 10:45 am

FSUnoles wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:45 pm
Skoll wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:22 am
Don't cops already have a form of SYG under FL law? I mean, LEOs have some of the most and unbalanced legal protections nationwide out of anyone.
Held to the same standard as your average joe. Objective reasonableness based on the totality of the circumstances. All police involved shootings in broward usually go to a grand jury.
If cops were always held to the same standard, then Average Joe wouldn't instantly lose My word against yours re: cops. I'm not doubting what you said re: Broward but to the average citizen, cops definitely seem to enjoy more protections.
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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by FSUnoles » Wed May 16, 2018 9:52 pm

By statute in Florida they’re held to the same use of force standards as joe s';t the rag man.

How a judge/jury interprets that is open to interpretation.

IE. If a LEO unlawfully enters a house/vehicle and commits a crime there with in, its an armed burglary.

The media in the country is deplorable.

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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by Gmountain » Sun May 20, 2018 9:23 am

cubanstang50 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:09 am
UnderdogII wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:02 pm
Corey Jones (February 3, 1984 – October 18, 2015) was an African-American man who was shot by a plainclothes police officer while waiting by his disabled car in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. On June 1, 2016, the officer who shot Jones, Nouman K. Raja, was charged with manslaughter and attempted murder.

This case has a significant outcome possibly on SYG law.
We'll see. Raja is invoking his SYG rights.
Yes, this case will be interesting to see the outcome. I dont see how he can use the SYG law but we do not know all of the details.
In this case, the cop was clearly wrong. He did everything wrong.

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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by ParishM » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:37 am

Florida Judge Rules Officer Who Used ‘Stand Your Ground’ Defense Must Go to Trial


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/01/us/f ... round.html

June 1, 2018

A Florida judge on Friday denied a request from a former police officer who fatally shot a driver to have criminal charges against him thrown out under the state’s so-called Stand Your Ground law, calling his testimony “unreliable and not credible.”

The defendant, Nouman K. Raja, was on duty in plain clothes early on Oct. 18, 2015, when he approached a vehicle that he said he thought was abandoned on the side of an interstate. His brief exchange with the man he found inside the vehicle, Corey Jones, was recorded on a phone call Mr. Jones had placed seeking roadside assistance.

At the time of the deadly encounter, Mr. Jones, a 31-year-old musician and housing inspector, had a legally purchased handgun with him. Mr. Raja has claimed that Mr. Jones, who was black, pointed it at him, but prosecutors say Mr. Raja fired shots even as Mr. Jones fled. Within moments of making his approach, Mr. Raja had fired six shots and struck Mr. Jones three times, killing him.

Less than a month later, Mr. Raja was fired from the Palm Beach Gardens Police Department. He was charged in June 2016 with manslaughter by culpable negligence and attempted first-degree murder with a firearm.

In a 27-page ruling on Friday denying a motion by the defense to dismiss the case against Mr. Raja, the judge, Samantha Schosberg Feuer of Florida’s 15th Judicial Circuit Court, cited numerous inconsistencies between Mr. Raja’s testimony and the physical evidence.

Pointing to audio captured on Mr. Jones’s roadside assistance call, Judge Feuer indicated skepticism that Mr. Raja had clearly identified himself as a police officer — or that he had identified himself at all.

Her ruling noted that a 911 call Mr. Raja said he had placed while pursuing Mr. Jones — and before firing a second volley — was in fact placed some 33 seconds after he had fired the second volley. She also wrote that the position of shell casings found at the scene was at odds with Mr. Raja’s description of each volley of shots.

One of the judge’s observations appeared to hold particular relevance for a defendant claiming defense under the Stand Your Ground law, which removes the obligation to retreat if a person feels threatened and frees the person to use deadly force “if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary” to prevent “imminent death or great bodily harm.”

“Although the witnesses were unable to determine when each of the shots were fired or the order in which Jones received the wounds,” Judge Feuer wrote, “two of the three wounds entered through the back side of Jones, consistent with someone who is running away from the shooter.”

Although she denied Mr. Raja’s motion to dismiss the case on the basis of Stand Your Ground, the judge said he “remains free to use the defense at trial.”

Richard G. Lubin, a lawyer for Mr. Raja, did not respond to phone calls on Friday evening, but The Associated Press reported that he planned to file an appeal next week — a move almost certain to delay the trial’s scheduled start, in July.

The Office of the State Attorney, which is prosecuting the case, declined to comment on the ruling on Friday.

Florida’s Stand Your Ground law became a national flash point after the acquittal of George Zimmerman in the 2012 fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager. Although the law ultimately did not figure into the defense strategy pursued by Mr. Zimmerman’s legal team, it inspired significant protests across the United States.
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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by N4KVE » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:49 am

ParishM wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:37 am
Florida Judge Rules Officer Who Used ‘Stand Your Ground’ Defense Must Go to Trial


A Florida judge on Friday denied a request from a former police officer who fatally shot a driver to have criminal charges against him thrown out under the state’s so-called Stand Your Ground law, calling his testimony “unreliable and not credible.”
Good news.
This was a bad shoot. GARY.

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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by Trouter3 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:21 am

Gotta prove imminent death or great bodily harm, don't think a reasonable man will rule on his behalf, with three rounds in the back of the person killed , this officer was definitely the aggressor IMHO .. We shall see, strange things occur in our judicial system, how about the recent court awarding a family $4 for the killing of an individual by a LEO, I thought I heard someplace the four bucks was for gas expense to and from the court, talk a weird award and a kick in the arse, this gotta be in the top ten ...
Hold on !!!! Wife just read the award came out to less than $4 with all deductions [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] geez what a slap n the face ...

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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by ParishM » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:18 am

Trouter3 wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:21 am
Gotta prove imminent death or great bodily harm, don't think a reasonable man will rule on his behalf, with three rounds in the back of the person killed , this officer was definitely the aggressor IMHO .. We shall see, strange things occur in our judicial system, how about the recent court awarding a family $4 for the killing of an individual by a LEO, I thought I heard someplace the four bucks was for gas expense to and from the court, talk a weird award and a kick in the arse, this gotta be in the top ten ...
Hold on !!!! Wife just read the award came out to less than $4 with all deductions [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] geez what a slap n the face ...

the jury awarded a total of $4, they put 99% of the blame/fault on the person who was shot
mainly because he was drunk so the family got 1% of $4 = $.04
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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by Trouter3 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:55 am

Funny but tragic ... Breakdown as follows

$1.00 funeral services
$1.00 for each child (3)
Since the jurors found the sheriffs department was only 1 percent at fault in the death
It was reduced to .04 cents ..Jurors found since the person was intoxicated and mostly to blame for the shooting the Judge would reduce the .04 award to nothing .. [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif]

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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by firemedic2000 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:05 pm

What a joke. So being drunk is justification to be killed today. That award was an insult as was being shot in the back.

I just do not understand the mindset of cops to think they MUST SHOOT every person that coughs, looks at them the wrong or for that matter. Touches them, not hit but touches them. That's justification to violently beat the s';t out of someone or kill them.

There is something seriously wrong here. I get it that they deal with garbage. But not everyone is garbage. But then the concept that cops do not or would not enforce unconstitutional gun laws.

That they would not bust into homes or even kill Americans to take their guns away. Hey they are just doing their job. Enforcing the law. Right or wrong. Alot of cops do not believe Americans should be armed. Because they want to go home at night. So that Trump's the constitution.

I've spoken to alot that think this way. I've spoken to a few that do not. But push come to shove. They have a family to feed, bills, mortgages. For them to say they'd quite their jobs instead of enforcing unconstitutional gun laws. Yeah right, tell me another story.

I trusted the LEOs I grew up with. The home town cops I knew and everyone knew. That used common sense and had half a brain. These guys today do not think. There's only two paths right or wrong no middle ground. They'd as soon shoot you as look at you. I've actually heard a few say they could not wait to shoot a bad guy. Problem is they are the ones deciding who the bad guy is.

That could end up being you or I on a bad day for something totally stupid. That a person with common sense would look at and just shake their head. Then just because it was a cop shooting it gets justified 99% of the time.

Never ever will I call L.E. into my life. It's like playing roulette anymore.

My question is....are there roads, parks ect....named after the innocient AMERICANS killed by bad cops that broke the law.
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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by zeebaron » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:13 pm

As they say, you're being judged by a jury full of people too dumb to get out of jury duty. More true then you want to believe...

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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by Trouter3 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:16 pm

Tough nut to crack these LEOs are dealing with some low life individuals, a lot of adrenaline flowing, supposedly this fella was violently intoxicated, threatening, and he supposedly had a handgun in his back pocket was ordered many times to give it up but slammed the garage door closed, he was shot thru the closed garage doors ...I gotta admit many LEOs do over react or stimulate situations, make them worse than they are, provocation, wearing a badge that's human nature my friends, some don't have the personality to be a law enforcement officer, most are calm respectful and understand the laws, others are just in the wrong line of work, aggressive, confrontational, but in that line of work tough to put yourself in their shoes, I don't think I have the intestinal fortitude to walk over to an auto at 1 am on a lonely road pitch black and ask the driver for his license and registration, it's a crap shoot unpredictable scenario can take place depending on attitudes of both parties. You must condition yourself physically and mentally to accomplish a positive ending ...

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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by jjk308 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:39 am

firemedic2000 wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:05 pm
What a joke. So being drunk is justification to be killed today. That award was an insult as was being shot in the back.
Look up the whole story, not the biased BLM newspaper accounts of the $4 award.

Gregory Hill was extremely drunk, blood alcohol 0.40, (5X the legal limit for driving) and playing very loud and profane music in his "man cave" garage. The deputies were responding to a noise complaint by a neighbor.
Gregory opened the garage door with a pistol (unloaded) in his hand, then instead of either dropping it or raising his hands as ordered, started to close the garage door.
The deputies fired and 3 shots went through the door and hit Gregory who apparently had started to stick the pistol in his back pocket.
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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by GunsandHoses » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:20 am

jjk308 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:39 am
firemedic2000 wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:05 pm
What a joke. So being drunk is justification to be killed today. That award was an insult as was being shot in the back.
Look up the whole story, not the biased BLM newspaper accounts of the $4 award.

Gregory Hill was extremely drunk, blood alcohol 0.40, (5X the legal limit for driving) and playing very loud and profane music in his "man cave" garage. The deputies were responding to a noise complaint by a neighbor.
Gregory opened the garage door with a pistol (unloaded) in his hand, then instead of either dropping it or raising his hands as ordered, started to close the garage door.
The deputies fired and 3 shots went through the door and hit Gregory who apparently had started to stick the pistol in his back pocket.
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Re: Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by n0rlf » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:46 am

firemedic2000 wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:05 pm
What a joke. So being drunk is justification to be killed today. That award was an insult as was being shot in the back.

I just do not understand the mindset of cops to think they MUST SHOOT every person that coughs, looks at them the wrong or for that matter. Touches them, not hit but touches them. That's justification to violently beat the s';t out of someone or kill them.

There is something seriously wrong here. I get it that they deal with garbage. But not everyone is garbage. But then the concept that cops do not or would not enforce unconstitutional gun laws.

That they would not bust into homes or even kill Americans to take their guns away. Hey they are just doing their job. Enforcing the law. Right or wrong. Alot of cops do not believe Americans should be armed. Because they want to go home at night. So that Trump's the constitution.

I've spoken to alot that think this way. I've spoken to a few that do not. But push come to shove. They have a family to feed, bills, mortgages. For them to say they'd quite their jobs instead of enforcing unconstitutional gun laws. Yeah right, tell me another story.

I trusted the LEOs I grew up with. The home town cops I knew and everyone knew. That used common sense and had half a brain. These guys today do not think. There's only two paths right or wrong no middle ground. They'd as soon shoot you as look at you. I've actually heard a few say they could not wait to shoot a bad guy. Problem is they are the ones deciding who the bad guy is.

That could end up being you or I on a bad day for something totally stupid. That a person with common sense would look at and just shake their head. Then just because it was a cop shooting it gets justified 99% of the time.

Never ever will I call L.E. into my life. It's like playing roulette anymore.

My question is....are there roads, parks ect....named after the innocient AMERICANS killed by bad cops that broke the law.
Look up the stats. It does not happen all that often. Like anything else the media screams about the few instances that happen. It is their agenda so it is pushed.

As usual there are several sides to the story. A little research usually leads to more of the story. Yes cops make mistakes like any other human. They are in s pretty much thankless job handling garbage all day.

When anyone commits a crime they should be held responsible, regardless of their job. Cops are no different. However, they should not have to wait until someone shots at them before acting to save their life or anyone else's life. They are human just like you and I not super heroes that can Dodge or absorb bullets.

It usually comes down to someone acting stupidly. It is really not all that hard to follow directions. Listen, follow, live to fight them in court. Fight and risk being killed. Yeah that helps anyone how?
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Court Upholds 'Stand Your Ground' Shift

Post by dammitgriff » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:29 am

“When anyone commits a crime they should be held responsible, regardless of their job. Cops are no different. However, they should not have to wait until someone shots at them before acting to save their life or anyone else's life.”

How much longer before people start shooting cops for this very reason?
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