What is a gunfight really like?

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Trouter3
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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by Trouter3 » Fri May 04, 2018 10:27 am

A lot of compassion for the Vietnam vets by the people who s';t and pissed in their pants because they might have been drafted, the outspoken students who burned their drafts cards with a business adm major, these are the people that this country is made of now the liberal pussys make your off the wall bs comments, we served our country , where the f/;k where you heroes ....

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by Skoll » Fri May 04, 2018 11:59 am

Trouter3 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 10:27 am
A lot of compassion for the Vietnam vets by the people who s';t and pissed in their pants because they might have been drafted, the outspoken students who burned their drafts cards with a business adm major, these are the people that this country is made of now the liberal pussys make your off the wall bs comments, we served our country , where the f/;k where you heroes ....
I am legit curious how many of the members of this forum are that age. To answer your question, I wouldn't be a twinkle in my daddys eye until 12 years after direct US involvement in Vietnam ended.
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by Trouter3 » Fri May 04, 2018 1:49 pm

What difference does age make, they are veterans of any & all wars who put their life on the line, they died to protect the US constitution and your second amendment rights, and you can give a bs response like you did, you oughta be ashamed of yourself desecrating the memory of those young Americans, to my fellow veterans I promise you will never be forgotten we owe our freedoms to you who paid the ultimate price RIP I salute you ..

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by Skoll » Fri May 04, 2018 2:31 pm

I don't even know what you're talking about right now. I simply said it's in our nature to kill each other. If you can't take a flippant remark on the internet for what it is, you have a lot bigger problems than what I said.
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by photohause » Fri May 04, 2018 5:02 pm

Jeepsnguns wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 6:25 pm
photohause wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 4:01 pm
Every gun forum has to have someone to bring this topic up...geeesh
In defense of the OP, it was an interesting read for a non military/police person such as myself.
I hope to never be involved in a violent self defense situation.
I agree, no argument from me...I was just making a statement from observations,
What new gun my dear, this old thing?

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by Jeepsnguns » Fri May 04, 2018 8:49 pm

Trouter3 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 8:36 pm
once you pull the trigger, and that weapon goes bang, even if you don't kill the person your done, lawyers, police records, being sued, finished, your life and family will never be the same, so forget about a gunfight !! F#%king run if you can! get the hell outa that asap.
Trouter3 forgive me for creative editing your post in the quote above. I wanted you to know I understand and agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts & feelings.

I have read and re-read Florida Firearms Law, Use & Ownership by J. Gutmacher.
The last thing you want to do is pull the trigger, because once that happens, life as you know it will never be the same.

I agree with you, leave/run from the threat if you can.
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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by Trouter3 » Fri May 04, 2018 10:43 pm

Thank you for your thoughtful thorough analyzing on this subject, just another point of reference if I may, I've got friends who are in the judicial system, cops, lawyers, judges, I'll give you forum members something else to chew on and analyze, the general consensus in the course of conversation recently regarding a gunfight or pulling the trigger and making sure you can prove without a shadow of a doubt you were in imment life threatening danger, you were going to die if you didn't squeeze that trigger and this is profound, radical, call it what you may, but in the end it may be your best recourse of survival and your families, financially etc "make absolutely sure if your engaged in this scenario that you KILL the perp" yes KILL the sob, the final solution, not your word against his, it sounds cruel, but think about the after effects, do you realize how bad guys turn around and sue the person, how many walk away crippled and sue and how many liberal judges rule in the side of these criminals, just recently a judge ruled that the defender who was attacked used bullets that were to powerful to defend himself or used too many bullets...I could go on and on, but the point is run, leave, get the hell away asap your a loser even if you win ...

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by dammitgriff » Sat May 05, 2018 6:49 am

True...
Unless you’re protected under qualified immunity, where some members of society are more equal than others—and receive extrajudicial protection from their employers.


R/Griff

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by Skoll » Sat May 05, 2018 8:06 am

I'm pretty sure no one here actually wants to kill another human being.

That being said, no one can deny they were never not curious to what its like, or have been mad enough to feel as if they would kill. If you do you're probably a damn liar anyway. That's the reason why someone would ask a question like, "What's it like to be in a gunfight?".

Bad memories aside, I'm sure some, if not all of you were young men full of piss and vinegar asking ( and finding out the answer to ) the same questions.
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by photohause » Sat May 05, 2018 10:43 am

With that said OP, you get the adrenaline to draw, fire, and he's down - thirty or six seconds later,
which may feel like an hour or one second, you see him move and try to sit up, or crawl.
you OP have to ask yourself, can you squeeze one off and put him down? Can you live with that?
It's rhetorical questions which you can not answer, being you are not in that situation, or have never been in it.

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by jwillgym » Sat May 05, 2018 5:14 pm

Hmmm, I posted the response from another website, to the question "What is a gunfight really like". I was not the person that asked the question. I only posted one of the responses here because I thought it was rather eye opening. Didn't intend to make anyone butt hurt by it...
IYAOYAS

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by Trouter3 » Sat May 05, 2018 5:36 pm

No one was butt hurt, i wasn't, just an intelligent conversation with people who are of different opinion, everyday my friend is a learning process, and some people are real time thinkers and others dreamers ...

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by Rentprop1 » Sat May 05, 2018 7:04 pm

and don't forget attention seekers......lots of folks ( vets ) get in the sh!t and never talk about it again ...just sayin
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by Jim » Sat May 05, 2018 7:51 pm

Trouter3 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 10:10 am
What's f#%king question to ask, Wow we talking military or civilian ? Gents you cannot put into words what your feelings are when blow the side of a VC head off, each individual has their own reaction to horrendous combat, me I did it over there for 19 months it scared me for life ....you know what my little lady has forbidden me to talk about this s';t because it brings back bad depressing memories so b4 I get my ass handed to me I'm going to back off this subject .....we gotta have and find more interesting and educational subject to discuss on this forum ...it ain't fun killing someone ......

Cya
Trouter 3 Thanks for your Service. Most non Military don't know the rule about Vietnam." If you weren't there keep your mouth shut." I'm a US Army Vet, but not Vietnam. Put in for Adviser in 1961, Military Intel Officer turned me down because of my MOS.

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by Trouter3 » Sat May 05, 2018 9:52 pm

Rent ...... many vets ended up in mental institutions, or killed themselves, or became heavy drug users, veterans are encouraged to talk about your
Experiences during the conflict by head Doctors , I never used to talk about it, used to make me very nervous just thinking about it, used to attend veterans clubs and meetings til I got sick of all the glory boys who never saw a minute of combat wearing all their medals on their T shirts, all rear echelon boys wanted a piece of the action ..

Jim
Thank you for your service brother my MOS was simple " ground pounder " infantry, lucky lucky fucker I am, something about or on this forum a few months ago regenerated my desire to talk about South east Asia again, a question or statement I don't recall, I try to stay away like you say from the wannabes but sometimes I can't look the other way from their BS ..the majority of the people on here are sincere,

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by firemedic2000 » Thu May 10, 2018 6:47 pm

I've seen people drop from a single shot to the brain. Even using a handgun. A 45acp and 9mm from a mp5sd we did not use 9mm handguns.

Even though they went down and could not move and were unconscious I guess. They sometimes were still alive but could not move, they were dead. They were hit in that part of the brain that killed them, but the brain I guess did not know it yet. But another part of the brain still allowed them to some what breath. For a while anyways.

They'd take a breath about every 30 seconds and their mouth made a O shape and popping sound. Kinda like a fish out of the water.

They died very shortly later but the part of brain that was not damaged that controlled breathing towards the front of the head kept them alive for a short period of time. They eventually just stopped breathing. Unless they were shot again.

But no one ever got up from being shot in the brain.

On room clearing teams it was always two chest shots and one shot to the head. We used shotguns, mp5sd ,1911 and CAR-15 some teams even used the old grease guns in 45acp

But remember we were using ball ammo not the newer hp ammunition today that's designed for self Defense and cause alot more damage than just ball fmj ammo.

It depends on the bullet design I think.

Also working as a Fire Rescue medic I have seen where individuals have been shot with hp ammunition and were dropped with one shot. It just depends on where they were hit. But there's a hugh difference between fmj and hp ammunition

The military is not using the best ammo available. They use what the Geneva convention says they can use.

Now I'm not saying sometimes in certain units we used whatever kind of ammo we wanted back in the day before all of these bullshit rules of engagement were made that was a long time ago.

If they did it today and were caught they probably would get COURT Martialed.

Either way I do not dwell on it or think as much about it anymore. I do miss the adrenaline rush though. He best high in the world. I'd probably have a heart attack now from it [smilie=011.gif]

Great post op.
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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by Trouter3 » Thu May 10, 2018 9:17 pm

We are getting deep into the subject of dying when gunshot, the horrific sight of a body convulsing when not physically but mentally dead, when ones nerve endings are unable to pass working instructions to the physical body, there is no IMHO more psychologically devastating sight to the person seeing a human die, never get used to it you just accept it as the postion you are I and try to survive ...by repetition your mind begins to get immune to these daily occurrences, the strong of mind survive the weak perish into the bowells of deep depression and their life is never the same they try to cope daily by artificial means ...to those who haven't my prayers are with you ...may the lord bless and keep you ...

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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by firemedic2000 » Fri May 11, 2018 4:19 am

Trouter3 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 9:17 pm
We are getting deep into the subject of dying when gunshot, the horrific sight of a body convulsing when not physically but mentally dead, when ones nerve endings are unable to pass working instructions to the physical body, there is no IMHO more psychologically devastating sight to the person seeing a human die, never get used to it you just accept it as the postion you are I and try to survive ...by repetition your mind begins to get immune to these daily occurrences, the strong of mind survive the weak perish into the bowells of deep depression and their life is never the same they try to cope daily by artificial means ...to those who haven't my prayers are with you ...may the lord bless and keep you ...

Agree.......I had more problems with what I saw as a Firefighter/Paramedic than I'll ever have with what I saw many years ago in the Army.

The things I've ran calls on and seen, touched and worked on has kept me awake at night more often than I can count. Even now as I type this. I was asleep and woke up because of something I was either thinking of or dreaming about. It's hard to tell the difference.

I've gone through phases of not being able to eat anything cooked on the grill because of bodies I've seen burned. Not being able to eat spare ribs. You can use your imagination as to why on that one.

But you eventually get over and adjust to what you see. I won't say you actually get use to it, somethings wrong with you if you get use to it. But instead you learn to accept what you see, if that makes sense and. I always told myself it was not my emergency.

You learn to block it out. It's kinda like when you look at it. You train your brain to see a blank sheet of paper. You almost have to flip a mental switch to actually see it, or you stop looking at things. Even when your have to remove bodies from mangled vehicles or children from the springs of tractor trailor springs on the trucks.

But yeah the things Ive seen as a Firefighter Paramedic has far more effected than what I did in the Army. We had two firefighters commit suicide in the station within a year once. Both were dual cert as paramedics to.

They used drugs to commit suicide, Fentanyl because we use this drug on patients for pain and they stole the left over Fentanyl and replaces it with water. Then dumped that out at the hospital. Took the Fentanyl home to do the deed. They were good guys to. You'd never known they had any problems. I guess over the years everything they seen plus personal problems, who knows. How sad.........

When your around death all the time. You have to be careful. Because you can grow to use to it. It become to normal to you. You might say you could lose your perspective or you start to dwell on death to much. One thing is for certain. You become very aware of your own mortality or just how mortal you are. It did me at least and I'm sure it did my friends I worked with.

I'm retired now from FRS and am totally bored out of my mind. I was so use to running 100mph then coming home to zero to rest.
I loved fighting fire, there was nothing like running into a burning building and combating it. I also miss helping the sick and injuried. To be able to made a difference by saving a life.

But sometimes it did not always workout the way you wanted it to. Death is always next to you. Watching and waiting to take your hand. One day he will get it. Everyone dies, everyone. It's part of life.

So you can not go through life dwelling about death or the the things you've done or seen. You can not ever forget those things you've seen and done. That's an absolute. You must learn to live with them and control them and if possible use them to your benefit.

You have two real choices in this world. I've seen people that have made both of these choices.
You can live your life dwelling on death. In other words dwelling on dieing. I've seen people that once they reach 50 plus they stop living. They just dwell on dieing and spend their time waiting to die. These people are very depressing. I bet everyone here know someone like this.

You ask them how they are doing and instead of saying I'm having a good day. You get their complete medical history of whats wrong with them. They never feel good. They are alway sick. They are waiting to die. Alot of these people self medicate also.

Or

You can live you life dwelling on how to live it. These people live to live and do not give dieing a second thought.

You ask these people how they are doing and no matter how they feel. They'll say great. Let go get lunch or do something. They never complain about aches or pains or being sick. If they hurt or get sick they go to the doctor get treated and drive on.

Of coarse you can tell if someone is truely sick or hurt. I truely feel for these people. The people that are in chronic pain. To me that is the worst thing in the world to live with pain 24/7 it plays on you both physically and mentally. Then to have some politician pass laws making it harder for you to get treated is bullshit. Because they combine drug addict over doses using illegal drug use in with legal drug use and accidental over doses. I've never run the number of prescription over doses these political leaders talk about and I work in pill usage heaven.

Sorry got off track. GOD I miss my job retirement sucks [smilie=012.gif] no I'm not working at McDonald's either [smilie=011.gif] I'd eat all the Big Macs =:e
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Re: What is a gunfight really like?

Post by Trouter3 » Fri May 11, 2018 8:43 am

The reason we or I reminisce these horrendous happenings, if I get one persons attention to what the repercussions are both mentally and physically of killing a human being then I feel like I've done a good service to mankind, I'm not a preacher just a regular Joe that went through these experiences why shouldn't a pass on my experiences, people who don't take part in these scenarios real time have no, zero, nada, clue as to the end result, when that weapon goes off it isn't the END it's just the BEGINING of the event ..so again run, hide, leave, get the hell out if you can again if you win you lose !!
I'm off to the shooting range to put some holes in paper, recently acquired a Glock 42 in .380 going to see if all the reviews are creditable ...

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What is a gunfight really like?

Post by dammitgriff » Fri May 11, 2018 8:59 am

Why anybody would want to work in any profession where killing another human being is highly probable is the question nobody thinks to ask. There has to be some adverse pathology at work there.
R/Griff

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