Question about firearms shipping

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DaeWoob
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Question about firearms shipping

Post by DaeWoob » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:29 am

OK. For years now I have been wondering about something that I read on the ATF website. Here is the information as posted. I have highlighted the information in question.........................

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]

Now it's always been my understanding (and the procedure that I use) that firearms had to be sent to an FFL holder in order to complete the paperwork for transfer of the firearm. I have had my C&R for several years and of course have had many guns sent directly to my home. But the wording of the above from the ATF website makes it sound as though two individuals (nonlicensees) from the same state can exchange guns by common or contract carrier without the use of a FFL dealer. Yes? No? Is says nothing about the resident of the same state being a licensee. It only states that if you ship it out of state that you have to be sending it to a licensee.

Am I missing something here? Am I reading something wrong? Why couldn't a Florida resident buy a firearm from another Florida resident and have it shipped directly to the buyer via common or contract carrier from the seller?

Thanks for your input.
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by 870Mike » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:19 am

Yes, you can. No, FedEx, UPS will not accept it.
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by Taco » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:04 am

870Mike wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:19 am
Yes, you can. No, FedEx, UPS will not accept it.
By policy, not law. And I'm sure you've seen how informed some employees can be about company policy.

You are required to inform them of what is in the package. I have shipped myself a firearm rather than check luggage and the guy at the office supply store took care of everything. I also have had folks here ship stuff to me without hassle as far as I can tell.
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by 870Mike » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:44 am

Taco wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:04 am
870Mike wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:19 am
Yes, you can. No, FedEx, UPS will not accept it.
By policy, not law. And I'm sure you've seen how informed some employees can be about company policy.
Yeah, good luck with that. Gonna go teach my cat algebra now... [smilie=011.gif]
Last edited by 870Mike on Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by Gmountain » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:02 am

I've received some guns that way.

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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by 870Mike » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:05 am

Gmountain wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:02 am
I've received some guns that way.
Me too. Several from this site. None of the sellers, in violation of Federal law, informed the carrier what was in the box.
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by 870Mike » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:09 am

UPS:

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms

UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

The shipper must comply with and must ensure that each shipment containing firearms complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package, including, without limitation, age restrictions.


FedEx:

Firearms

Carrier will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
Last edited by 870Mike on Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by jjk308 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:11 am

My closest Fedex Office doesn't ask, doesn't care when told and I've shipped firearms instate no problems.
I had problems with shipping antiques from the UPS center, until I wrote a letter to the VP in charge of customer service and he beat on them. They got VERY polite and stopped harassing me.
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by Flame Red » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:44 am

Long ago, UPS would ship firearms for non-FFL. But you would have to send it Air via highest cost service, and you would have to take it to the main UPS terminal which was near the airport a couple of hours away for me.Sometimes had to fight with the counter person and get a supervisor.

I have since found a couple local FFL that do not rip me a new a$$hole to ship firearms. Easier and cheaper than driving hours and having to fight with UPS counter person that did not know the rules. Maybe UPS changed their rules - it has been a while.
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by tector » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:51 am

The law is clear--an intrastate handgun transfer from Joe Sixpick to Average Joe by common carrier is allowed, but Joe Sixpack is required to disclose the contents. He doesn't have the option of waiting to be asked--he has to volunteer the info.

The corporate policies of UPS and FedEx are also clear--they are not going to carry intrastate handgun transfers from Joe Sixpack to Average Joe, but only to Mr. FFL.

So unless Dopey Employee of UPS/FedEx doesn't know or just ignores corporate policy, the transfer is not going to happen without a federal felony occuring on the part of Joe Sixpack. If you can find Dopey Employee, so much the better for you. If not, time for plan B (such as a mule).
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by Rentprop1 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:08 pm

Box it up, call for home pick up, thank driver and as hes walking away mutter.....it's a firearm....all clear
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by ger42 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:36 pm

Don't know if things have change at my local USPS office but a few years back I went to ship a rifle to a dealer in another state and at first was told they did not ship guns. Took close to an hour talking to the Postmaster and having her make calls before they took the rifle. Had gone to 2 different UPS locations and neither would do it and would not discuss it.
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by tector » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:33 pm

Rentprop1 wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:08 pm
Box it up, call for home pick up, thank driver and as hes walking away mutter.....it's a firearm....all clear
That is called an evidentiary issue at your trial. You have already paid $25,000+ to get to that point, easy.

Also, I believe both UPS and FedEx require you (if you are a non-FFL) to go to one of their own centers. You can't use pickup, FedEx Office or a UPS Store.

But whatever, guys. Save $9 or whatever on a transfer....
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by 870Mike » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:42 pm

Another issue is insurance. If they lose your $59 Swedish Vacuum P e n i s Enlarger, no biggie. If they lose a $600 pistol, and you didn't indicate/insure a pistol, you're [smilie=042.gif] outta luck.
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by tector » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:20 pm

870Mike wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:42 pm
Another issue is insurance. If they lose your $59 Swedish Vacuum P e n i s Enlarger, no biggie. If they lose a $600 pistol, and you didn't indicate/insure a pistol, you're [smilie=042.gif] outta luck.
Correct.

And it better be a biggie if I am buying the Swedish Vacuum P e n i s Enlarger.
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by 870Mike » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:39 pm

"Send lawyers & money...have enough guns." - 870Mike

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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by jjk308 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:17 am

ger42 wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:36 pm
Don't know if things have change at my local USPS office but a few years back I went to ship a rifle to a dealer in another state and at first was told they did not ship guns. Took close to an hour talking to the Postmaster and having her make calls before they took the rifle. Had gone to 2 different UPS locations and neither would do it and would not discuss it.
I believe you may be confusing UPS stores - franchise operations - with UPS itself. To ship firearms via UPS you need to take it to a UPS Customer Center. The UPS stores will not accept them.

Here's the official UPS corporate rules: https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/p ... earms.page

FedEx Office locations are owned by FedEx and you can ship firearms from them. I've found FedEx Ground to be a little cheaper than UPS, much more convenient and I have an account so i can print my own labels and just drop them at a nearby FedEx office.

http://images.fedex.com/us/services/pdf ... e_2018.pdf

Neither company cares if an individual is shipping, licensee or not, but the recipient must be a licensee or manufacturer or other legal recipient.
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by zeebaron » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:05 pm

Does the Federal law say when they have to be notified? Can you just send a letter with the tracking number on it after it has been delivered?

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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by 870Mike » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:05 pm

zeebaron wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:05 pm
Does the Federal law say when they have to be notified?
Yes, at the time of shipment.
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Re: Question about firearms shipping

Post by ger42 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:45 am

jjk308 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:17 am
ger42 wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:36 pm
Don't know if things have change at my local USPS office but a few years back I went to ship a rifle to a dealer in another state and at first was told they did not ship guns. Took close to an hour talking to the Postmaster and having her make calls before they took the rifle. Had gone to 2 different UPS locations and neither would do it and would not discuss it.
I believe you may be confusing UPS stores - franchise operations - with UPS itself. To ship firearms via UPS you need to take it to a UPS Customer Center. The UPS stores will not accept them.

Here's the official UPS corporate rules: https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/p ... earms.page

FedEx Office locations are owned by FedEx and you can ship firearms from them. I've found FedEx Ground to be a little cheaper than UPS, much more convenient and I have an account so i can print my own labels and just drop them at a nearby FedEx office.

http://images.fedex.com/us/services/pdf ... e_2018.pdf

Neither company cares if an individual is shipping, licensee or not, but the recipient must be a licensee or manufacturer or other legal recipient.
Never tried to ship a gun from a UPS Store only UPS hubs.
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