Future of bump fire devices?

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Villafuego
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Villafuego » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:02 am

Cloaked Dagger wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:21 pm
I agree with orlando paulitician that if we are going to sacrifice bump stocks we should make sure to get something in return for it. This could actually work out to our net benefit if our representatives play their cards and politics right to get something more important in exchange for a bump stock ban.

So if our representatives actually do their job...oh right they never do...and they actually represent us...oh right they just represent themselves and large campaign contributors...and then get us something like the HPA in exchange...oh right they will use the political capital for their own special interest instead.
What we get in return is that by taking the lead, and making them the "sacrificial lamb", we don't wait for (D) crafted , broadly worded legislation that would not only pass (given the current climate), but potentially be much more far reaching in its scope

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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by molivo » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:59 am

Taco wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:55 am
So... Let's look at history of bans. A couple items:

FA items, you got to keep but register?
AWB, keep bit no new items
Street sweeper shotgun, became destructive devices/no sporting purpose, register and keep?
Open bolt mac, you got to keep but no new sales (pre 82 were fine, 82 to 86 registered?)
Drop in autoseer, this one was confusing, I don't really know the ins and outs
Saturday night specials, no more imports
Adkins accelerator, must be distroyed/spring removed
That glove thing, must be distroyed
Gsg5 fake suppressor that was not fake enough, must be destroyed/recalled
What happened to the 80% guys who had the machine where you started it via the internet to finish the lower and they mailed it to you? No new ones?

Has there been other things that went to market for a while that have been reclassified and recalled?

The 80% thing never even got off the ground. The guy was taking preorders to come up with the money to buy a ghost gunner. Mysteriously the website disappeared.

Slidefires have been out for almost a decade. There are literally probably hundreds of thousands of them out there. They'd have to just institute a manufacturing ban, letting whats out there be out there, possibly have some kind of amnesty period to register those in circulation. And if they do that, register them as what? Machine guns? If its now a registered machine gun, can I modify it to be a REAL machine gun?

Too problematic. My guess is they'll say theyre banned from manufacture. And even THEN you can expect China to start making them and smuggling them in.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by molivo » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:00 am

Extrodinarily interesting side note...gunbroker.com JUST BANNED THE SALE OF THEM ON THEIR WEBSITE!

:-k
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by jjk308 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:03 am

Villafuego wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:02 am
Cloaked Dagger wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:21 pm
I agree with orlando paulitician that if we are going to sacrifice bump stocks we should make sure to get something in return for it. This could actually work out to our net benefit if our representatives play their cards and politics right to get something more important in exchange for a bump stock ban.

So if our representatives actually do their job...oh right they never do...and they actually represent us...oh right they just represent themselves and large campaign contributors...and then get us something like the HPA in exchange...oh right they will use the political capital for their own special interest instead.
What we get in return is that by taking the lead, and making them the "sacrificial lamb", we don't wait for (D) crafted , broadly worded legislation that would not only pass (given the current climate), but potentially be much more far reaching in its scope
+1 Defangs the gun grabbers on their ONLY issue, a device that is really useless IMHO. Saw Tucker Carlson last night interview the Brady president. Answer to every question was "more background checks" even when asked why she thought that'd stop Las Vegas or how it would work with hundreds of millions of guns available it was - "more background checks". She was just pathetic.

So they are left with nothing short of asking for gun confiscation, which will really backfire everywhere but the few very deep blue states. Everything else, like background checks, has been proven a failure with zero impact.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Villafuego » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:05 am

molivo wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:59 am
Taco wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:55 am
So... Let's look at history of bans. A couple items:

FA items, you got to keep but register?
AWB, keep bit no new items
Street sweeper shotgun, became destructive devices/no sporting purpose, register and keep?
Open bolt mac, you got to keep but no new sales (pre 82 were fine, 82 to 86 registered?)
Drop in autoseer, this one was confusing, I don't really know the ins and outs
Saturday night specials, no more imports
Adkins accelerator, must be distroyed/spring removed
That glove thing, must be distroyed
Gsg5 fake suppressor that was not fake enough, must be destroyed/recalled
What happened to the 80% guys who had the machine where you started it via the internet to finish the lower and they mailed it to you? No new ones?

Has there been other things that went to market for a while that have been reclassified and recalled?

The 80% thing never even got off the ground. The guy was taking preorders to come up with the money to buy a ghost gunner. Mysteriously the website disappeared.

Slidefires have been out for almost a decade. There are literally probably hundreds of thousands of them out there. They'd have to just institute a manufacturing ban, letting whats out there be out there, possibly have some kind of amnesty period to register those in circulation. And if they do that, register them as what? Machine guns? If its now a registered machine gun, can I modify it to be a REAL machine gun?

Too problematic. My guess is they'll say theyre banned from manufacture. And even THEN you can expect China to start making them and smuggling them in.
I'd say they will simply be banned......no ATF reclassification at all

If they were reclassified as MG's (somehow?), they'd immediately turn into post samples and have to be destroyed, transferred to an SOT, or LE Agency....not in the NFRTR prior to May '86.......reclassification would not undo the Hughes amendment....

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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Famester » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:09 am

molivo wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:59 am
Taco wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:55 am
So... Let's look at history of bans. A couple items:

FA items, you got to keep but register?
AWB, keep bit no new items
Street sweeper shotgun, became destructive devices/no sporting purpose, register and keep?
Open bolt mac, you got to keep but no new sales (pre 82 were fine, 82 to 86 registered?)
Drop in autoseer, this one was confusing, I don't really know the ins and outs
Saturday night specials, no more imports
Adkins accelerator, must be distroyed/spring removed
That glove thing, must be distroyed
Gsg5 fake suppressor that was not fake enough, must be destroyed/recalled
What happened to the 80% guys who had the machine where you started it via the internet to finish the lower and they mailed it to you? No new ones?

Has there been other things that went to market for a while that have been reclassified and recalled?

The 80% thing never even got off the ground. The guy was taking preorders to come up with the money to buy a ghost gunner. Mysteriously the website disappeared.

Slidefires have been out for almost a decade. There are literally probably hundreds of thousands of them out there. They'd have to just institute a manufacturing ban, letting whats out there be out there, possibly have some kind of amnesty period to register those in circulation. And if they do that, register them as what? Machine guns? If its now a registered machine gun, can I modify it to be a REAL machine gun?

Too problematic. My guess is they'll say theyre banned from manufacture. And even THEN you can expect China to start making them and smuggling them in.
I looked at it and anyone could easily scribe a serial number on it.
I read it has been suggested to marry the Slide Fire to a lower and use that as the serial number to register.
Cannot see how they can outright tell the public to turn in or destroy without some sort of compensation.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Rentprop1 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:18 am

if anything they will be regulated and you'll probably have to pony up some $$$ to keep them, oh and you'll probably have to register them......but I'm betting them will be the sacrificial lamb and just become banned and illegal to possess.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Taco » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:34 am

DD or AOW?

Again, I know how to stay out of this area, I'm not well versed in the rules and regulations within it.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by zeebaron » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 am

Villafuego wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:02 am
Cloaked Dagger wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:21 pm
I agree with orlando paulitician that if we are going to sacrifice bump stocks we should make sure to get something in return for it. This could actually work out to our net benefit if our representatives play their cards and politics right to get something more important in exchange for a bump stock ban.

So if our representatives actually do their job...oh right they never do...and they actually represent us...oh right they just represent themselves and large campaign contributors...and then get us something like the HPA in exchange...oh right they will use the political capital for their own special interest instead.
What we get in return is that by taking the lead, and making them the "sacrificial lamb", we don't wait for (D) crafted , broadly worded legislation that would not only pass (given the current climate), but potentially be much more far reaching in its scope
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by tector » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:59 am

If they had been banned from day one nobody would have given a single s';t.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Villafuego » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:05 am

zeebaron wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 am
Villafuego wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:02 am
Cloaked Dagger wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:21 pm
I agree with orlando paulitician that if we are going to sacrifice bump stocks we should make sure to get something in return for it. This could actually work out to our net benefit if our representatives play their cards and politics right to get something more important in exchange for a bump stock ban.

So if our representatives actually do their job...oh right they never do...and they actually represent us...oh right they just represent themselves and large campaign contributors...and then get us something like the HPA in exchange...oh right they will use the political capital for their own special interest instead.
What we get in return is that by taking the lead, and making them the "sacrificial lamb", we don't wait for (D) crafted , broadly worded legislation that would not only pass (given the current climate), but potentially be much more far reaching in its scope
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Sucked for Slidefire stocks Czechoslovakia though

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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by tector » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:07 am

molivo wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:00 am
Extrodinarily interesting side note...gunbroker.com JUST BANNED THE SALE OF THEM ON THEIR WEBSITE!

:-k
I haven't looked at the cases, but the actual text of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act is potentially vague. The immunity covers:

(4) Qualified product
The term “qualified product” means a firearm (as defined in subparagraph (A) or (B) of section 921(a)(3) of title 18), including any antique firearm (as defined in section 921(a)(16) of such title), or ammunition (as defined in section 921(a)(17)(A) of such title), or a component part of a firearm or ammunition, that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.


So is an aftermarket stock that arguably changes the function of the firearm still a "component part"?

Sounds like a lawsuit to me, which would explain GB's action.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by molivo » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:50 am

Tectir, the problem with them is you give them an inch theyll take a mile...i could care less about bump stocks. But you know it doesnt stop there. Then itll be "Well why does someone need more then a 5 round magazine?" "Why does someone need to fire a semiautomatic?". The shane is 99 percent of the country had no idea WTF a bump fire stock was until this event. If we set the precedent of banning something everytime its misued for the wrong purpose we are going to be in a world of hurt 5-10 years from now.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by tector » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:15 am

molivo wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:50 am
Tectir, the problem with them is you give them an inch theyll take a mile...i could care less about bump stocks. But you know it doesnt stop there. Then itll be "Well why does someone need more then a 5 round magazine?" "Why does someone need to fire a semiautomatic?". The shane is 99 percent of the country had no idea WTF a bump fire stock was until this event. If we set the precedent of banning something everytime its misued for the wrong purpose we are going to be in a world of hurt 5-10 years from now.
I tell you again--presumably the NRA sounded out their people in Congress on this one and figured out they could not win (if they didn't, then shame on them). So it is likely an illusion "we" are giving anything away.

The NRA does not have a bottomless pit of political capital. They have to pick your battles.I have blasted them for caving on stupid things before--which caving in proved to be unnecessary since the f#;.,/g bill didn't even pass AFTER they caved. I can only hope they have learned their lesson and are only moving here because they know they have sure loser on their hands.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by tector » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:19 am

tector wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:15 am

The NRA does not have a bottomless pit of political capital. They have to pick your battles.I have blasted them for caving on stupid things before--which caving in proved to be unnecessary since the f#;.,/g bill didn't even pass AFTER they caved. I can only hope they have learned their lesson and are only moving here because they know they have sure loser on their hands.
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=75162&p=573562&hil ... ct#p573562
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by molivo » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:54 pm

tector wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:15 am
molivo wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:50 am
Tectir, the problem with them is you give them an inch theyll take a mile...i could care less about bump stocks. But you know it doesnt stop there. Then itll be "Well why does someone need more then a 5 round magazine?" "Why does someone need to fire a semiautomatic?". The shane is 99 percent of the country had no idea WTF a bump fire stock was until this event. If we set the precedent of banning something everytime its misued for the wrong purpose we are going to be in a world of hurt 5-10 years from now.
I tell you again--presumably the NRA sounded out their people in Congress on this one and figured out they could not win (if they didn't, then shame on them). So it is likely an illusion "we" are giving anything away.

The NRA does not have a bottomless pit of political capital. They have to pick your battles.I have blasted them for caving on stupid things before--which caving in proved to be unnecessary since the f#;.,/g bill didn't even pass AFTER they caved. I can only hope they have learned their lesson and are only moving here because they know they have sure loser on their hands.
So lets call it what it is then, the NRA selling out its members. Yet again. Frankly, i probably wouldnt have even cared if they hadnt put all that much effort into fighting it and just stayed quiet on the issue...but for fucks sake, they actually implored ATF to look into its legallity..i mean...really?
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by tector » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:59 pm

Well, it is ATF legal no doubt. When did they get blessed by the ATF, in the GWB or Obummer administrations?
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by molivo » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:10 pm

tector wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:59 pm
Well, it is ATF legal no doubt. When did they get blessed by the ATF, in the GWB or Obummer administrations?
Obama.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by tector » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:11 pm

molivo wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:10 pm
tector wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:59 pm
Well, it is ATF legal no doubt. When did they get blessed by the ATF, in the GWB or Obummer administrations?
Obama.
Wasn't the Akins thing during late GWB?
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by tector » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:15 pm

tector wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:11 pm
molivo wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:10 pm
tector wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:59 pm
Well, it is ATF legal no doubt. When did they get blessed by the ATF, in the GWB or Obummer administrations?
Obama.
Wasn't the Akins thing during late GWB?
Yeah that was, because here is an article dated before the election. Then bumpstocks were differentiated from Akins later, so I think you are right.

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