Future of bump fire devices?

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Limeybtrd
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Limeybtrd » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:10 pm

Indeed. Never owned one , never wanted to own one. But my original point is , who allowed these to be made legal?

If they are going to be made illegal in which I personally disagree with, it should be the ATF head on the line for allowing them in the first instance.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by firemedic2000 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:12 pm

I put a binary in my SBR lower with suppressors on it. I guess I'll be flipping out any day now.
I don't get. The guns, stock, ammo and magazines have gotten more attention than the damn killer.

Hold on I better go lock my safe. I dont want that suppressed sbr with a binary trigger sneaking in here and whispering in my ear to go out and do something horrible. After all the only thing they were designed for was killing masses of human being =:wvr

Bump stocks, binary triggers and full autos. Hell why stop there because it's just a matter of time. Because suppressors were designed to conceal the shooters location. Totally ban them to. Let's ban everything that was in that mass murderers rooms. Lets not blame just one item.

Hell he had a room full of killing machines designed for nothing but killing. Semi autos and 60 and 100 rd magazines. Specifically designed for killing large crowds of people. Gee what did the designers have in mine when they thought up those weapons and mags

Don't just stop with the bump stock. That the designers built specifically to shoot large crowds of people with.

Forget about the killer. He was a victim also. Poor guy he couldn't help himself all that firepower went to his head. [smilie=012.gif]

At least a .38 cal did [smilie=011.gif] I'm just being sarcastic on all this ban stuff. It's stupid. No ban, law or anything would have stopped this from happening.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:27 pm

Limeybtrd wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:10 pm
Indeed. Never owned one , never wanted to own one. But my original point is , who allowed these to be made legal?
Everything is legal until it's made illegal.

The way the ATF interprets what a machine gun is (more than one round is fired per one pull of the trigger), bump fire devices aren't machine guns.

Nobody "made it legal". It hasn't yet been made illegal.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by tector » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:44 pm

firemedic2000 wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:49 pm
molivo wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:24 pm
tector wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:10 pm
I can't blame the NRA. These stocks are s';t--they literally make the gun only useful for exactly what this sick fuckface used it for, spray and pray into a crowd. While it is conceivable to envision a legit self-defense situation where that might occur, it is just too farfetched compared to the reality of what just happened.

The battle will be whether they get regulated as de facto machine guns or just banned.
The problem is it wont stop at the stocks. Then the same logic would apply to the rifles. And hicap mags. And everything else they can weasle their way into banning...
I agree just like FA guns ban them all that's about f#;.,/g stupid right there. Saying they were designed to spray and slay crowds of people with. I'm absolutely sure the people that designed that stock and the binary trigger thought just that. Hey let's design something that mass murderers can use to kill people with. Bullshit just when I thought you were halfway intelligent.

Why don't you try rethinking that. Some mad man uses it and now it's evil. Just f#;.,/g ban the f#;.,/g guns to. Forget about even blaming the madman the mere fact he even touched that bump stock made him do it.

To even say say the manufacturers designed that to kill the masses is ignorant. Spoken like a true attorney. Wait you are an attorney aren't you have you sent out you business cards yet to the victims with that punch line.

I did not see that coming from you tector. But hey what do I know.
Not much, as you prove time and again.

As a defensive weapon, their only use is on a crowd. As I said, you can conceive of such a use legitimately, but it is pretty farfetched.

The REAL use by most everyone, of course, is just to dump a lot of ammo quickly and rather aimlessly at the range. That is a harmless endeavor. It is also trivial, which is why the NRA is not going to piss away capital on it.

Is there part of this still over your head?
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by tector » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:57 pm

We've all heard about the shoelace that became a machine gun, per the ATF.

Did anyone storm the barricades over that idiocy?

No, somehow the world moved on. While it provides a humorous example of the insanity of our gun laws, no one really dwells on it. Amazing how that works.

Hypothetical:

Let's imagine when first introduced, the ATF said the same stupid s';t about bump stocks--they were stillborn, never made it to market.

Would anybody now still give 2 shits? Hell, the Akins Accelerator got treated worse than that.

The only importance of a f#;.,/g bump stock is political. That's it. The rest of it is in your imagination.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by firemedic2000 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:16 pm

tector wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:44 pm
firemedic2000 wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:49 pm
molivo wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:24 pm
tector wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:10 pm
I can't blame the NRA. These stocks are s';t--they literally make the gun only useful for exactly what this sick fuckface used it for, spray and pray into a crowd. While it is conceivable to envision a legit self-defense situation where that might occur, it is just too farfetched compared to the reality of what just happened.

The battle will be whether they get regulated as de facto machine guns or just banned.
The problem is it wont stop at the stocks. Then the same logic would apply to the rifles. And hicap mags. And everything else they can weasle their way into banning...
I agree just like FA guns ban them all that's about f#;.,/g stupid right there. Saying they were designed to spray and slay crowds of people with. I'm absolutely sure the people that designed that stock and the binary trigger thought just that. Hey let's design something that mass murderers can use to kill people with. Bullshit just when I thought you were halfway intelligent.

Why don't you try rethinking that. Some mad man uses it and now it's evil. Just f#;.,/g ban the f#;.,/g guns to. Forget about even blaming the madman the mere fact he even touched that bump stock made him do it.

To even say say the manufacturers designed that to kill the masses is ignorant. Spoken like a true attorney. Wait you are an attorney aren't you have you sent out you business cards yet to the victims with that punch line.

I did not see that coming from you tector. But hey what do I know.
Not much, as you prove time and again.
[smilie=011.gif] you do not know me. We've never met.
As I've proven time again
As a defensive weapon, their only use is on a crowd. As I said, you can conceive of such a use legitimately, but it is pretty farfetched.

The REAL use by most everyone, of course, is just to dump a lot of ammo quickly and rather aimlessly at the range. That is a harmless endeavor. It is also trivial, which is why the NRA is not going to piss away capital on it.

That's not what you said. You said.These stocks are s';t--they literally make the gun only useful for exactly what this sick fuckface used it for, spray and pray into a crowd. you accused that manufacturers of knowly making these with the sole purpose of mass murder.

Is there part of this still over your head?

Absolutely not. You favorite f#;.,/g come back is trying to demean an individual with commits like that. You are a f#;.,/g idiot for your accusations. I have never seen such idiotic commits made by anyone. As a matter of fact I found them so outrageous I just had to post them else where. The only thing that went over my head is the stupidity of what you even said.
I've also know that no one can win an arguement with you because you will continue to throw s';t against the wall, demean individuals and belittle their intelligence. I've noticed you do that to alot of people. But of coarse any arm chair computer commando can do that behinding behind a computers screen. .

So to avoid being kicked off again because of you crying to the mods we are finished with this. But please continue to post more of you nonsense. So I can post it on the other forums. You are a real hit. [smilie=011.gif]
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by tector » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:27 pm

Silly person:

There were two sentences next to each other. For most people, that might inform them they need to read them together. That is, in fact, a cornerstone of reading comprehension--one sentence typically informs or explains the next.

I think that even you understand this, sort of, but instead are just being a douche.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Limeybtrd » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:31 pm

Orlando Paulitician wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:27 pm
Limeybtrd wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:10 pm
Indeed. Never owned one , never wanted to own one. But my original point is , who allowed these to be made legal?
Everything is legal until it's made illegal.

The way the ATF interprets what a machine gun is (more than one round is fired per one pull of the trigger), bump fire devices aren't machine guns.

Nobody "made it legal". It hasn't yet been made illegal.
Missed my point completely. This bump stock or whatever they are called. Didn't it have to be accepted or passed by some entities before being allowed to be sold to the general public?
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by tector » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:38 pm

Limeybtrd wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:31 pm
Orlando Paulitician wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:27 pm
Limeybtrd wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:10 pm
Indeed. Never owned one , never wanted to own one. But my original point is , who allowed these to be made legal?
Everything is legal until it's made illegal.

The way the ATF interprets what a machine gun is (more than one round is fired per one pull of the trigger), bump fire devices aren't machine guns.

Nobody "made it legal". It hasn't yet been made illegal.
Missed my point completely. This bump stock or whatever they are called. Didn't it have to be accepted or passed by some entities before being allowed to be sold to the general public?
Yes, the ATF. Google up the story of the Akins Accelerator if you want a good laugh about that process.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Chinerd00 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:54 pm

Wtb bumpfire stock, will pay up to $2000.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by JohnMeridith » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:06 pm

Chinerd00 wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:54 pm
Wtb bumpfire stock, will pay up to $2000.
I have one but I'm only interested in trades. Scar 17(at least a dozen of them) or a Porsche gt3

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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Rebel » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:09 pm

WTT
Intermediate range missile for bump fire stock.
Now I can really get those wascally wabbits
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Orlando Paulitician
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:49 pm

Limeybtrd wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:31 pm
Orlando Paulitician wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:27 pm
Limeybtrd wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:10 pm
Indeed. Never owned one , never wanted to own one. But my original point is , who allowed these to be made legal?
Everything is legal until it's made illegal.

The way the ATF interprets what a machine gun is (more than one round is fired per one pull of the trigger), bump fire devices aren't machine guns.

Nobody "made it legal". It hasn't yet been made illegal.
Missed my point completely. This bump stock or whatever they are called. Didn't it have to be accepted or passed by some entities before being allowed to be sold to the general public?
No, I didn't miss your point.

My point is still applicable. ALL things are LEGAL, until made ILLEGAL.

Congress made MACHINE GUNS illegal.

Machine guns, as defined by an administrative agency promulgated with enforcing firearms law, is a gun that fires more than one shot of ammunition per one pull of a trigger.

The device was engineered with this in mind: the people who made bump fire stocks knew it simulated rapid fire while still not legally being a machine.

If the ATF has as of yet not said its a machine gun, then its not banned.

When people make innovative products, there is not an all-governing committee with which those products are tested before. Where it concerns matters of legal grey area, people either just make the product and hope they dont get hammered, or they seek legal counsel to define for them what is and isnt legal. Legal counsel can provide an opinion to give you guidelines on best practices, or even go further as to make arguments before administrative courts.

And this is what happened with bump fire stocks:
https://www.slidefire.com/downloads/BATFE.pdf

The ATF has weighed in. Congress did not make rapid fire illegal. If they had, they would have said you can't have a fast trigger finger. Congress made devices that shoot MORE THAN ONE ROUND PER PULL OF A TRIGGER ILLEGAL (to make after 1986 lest one be a dealer). According to that logic, the bump fire stock is not illegal.

But no, the gun industry is not like the pharmaceutical industry. One does not need formal ATF approval to sell their products on the open market, because the ATF hasn't made a blanket statement that all things are illegal for consumer use until they've approved it. They are not the FDA and that's not how the gun industry works.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Famester » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:45 pm

Rentprop1 wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:39 pm
some are over $ 500 on Gunbroker right now,,,,now is the time to dump them, remember if they make them illegal you're not gonna wanna be in possession of it, getting caught with one is probably the same penalty as getting caught with an unregistered MG or silencer....and you'll surely loose your gun rights , don't look for any type of grandfathering clause, those ass ahats want them banned, period .....you're not gonna be able to take it to the range or show your buddies, someone may rat you out for having it [-X


sell it now [smilie=011.gif]
Are you sure about that?
I don't see how they could make it illegal to possess if you purchased it before the ban was implemented.
I would say they will make a registry with a time to allow them to be registered, just like FA was done.
They would have to allow those to be grandfathered or worst case a buyback of some sort, but I have never seen anything made totally illegal to own after it was legit. Except alcohol during prohibition days.
Even with eminent domain, the govt compensates the landowner.
Maybe I am wrong, but I just dont see it.
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Famester » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:47 pm

Chinerd00 wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:54 pm
Wtb bumpfire stock, will pay up to $2000.
When can I come over to pick up the $2k [smilie=011.gif]
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Gregh181
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Gregh181 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:25 pm

Gunbroker has banned sales of them
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by zeebaron » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:17 am

Gregh181 wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:25 pm
Gunbroker has banned sales of them
Wonder if they got a call from the FBI because that's where they were purchased from.

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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Lilwoody » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:09 am

I've had a SF on a Rock River HBAR carbine since they were made legal the second time. Come on out to the range with me and tell me just how useless they are.

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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Gregh181 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:21 am

Lilwoody wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:09 am
I've had a SF on a Rock River HBAR carbine since they were made legal the second time. Come on out to the range with me and tell me just how useless they are.
I suppose. But then again a Geissele trigger and a lantac break can accomplish pretty much the same thing. When i shoot my SBR at indoor ranges i occasionally shoot fast enough to get stopped by store employees to make sure I'm not shooting full auto
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Re: Future of bump fire devices?

Post by Taco » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:55 am

So... Let's look at history of bans. A couple items:

FA items, you got to keep but register?
AWB, keep bit no new items
Street sweeper shotgun, became destructive devices/no sporting purpose, register and keep?
Open bolt mac, you got to keep but no new sales (pre 82 were fine, 82 to 86 registered?)
Drop in autoseer, this one was confusing, I don't really know the ins and outs
Saturday night specials, no more imports
Adkins accelerator, must be distroyed/spring removed
That glove thing, must be distroyed
Gsg5 fake suppressor that was not fake enough, must be destroyed/recalled
What happened to the 80% guys who had the machine where you started it via the internet to finish the lower and they mailed it to you? No new ones?

Has there been other things that went to market for a while that have been reclassified and recalled?
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