UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Official web sites and other useful information.
User avatar
aquajon
BANNED
Posts: 4130
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:18 pm
Location: Boca Raton
Contact:

UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by aquajon » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:52 pm

Some may remember, I sent a letter to the ATF on February 14th, 2008 asking for clarification about shipping a firearm between two unlicensed parties in the same state via a "private shipper". As in another member here as a courier.

Well, they FINALLY got back to me with a letter today reiterating what we all expected to hear. In a nutshell, it is perfectly legal. I'll post the letter in it's entirety tomorrow when I get back to work and scan it in.
This might be a handy letter to have in the car just in case someone is performing courier duty for two other members. The letter is signed by the chief, firearms programs division.

Edit, link to ATF letter
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0PISXXS1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by aquajon on Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Anonymous wrote:I replied "well you might have beat me at IDPA, but I take comfort in the fact that I'm beating you at life".

User avatar
MuzzleBrake
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 400
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:24 am
Location: Bradenton

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by MuzzleBrake » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:37 pm

Outstanding! Great work man, Now we know for sure.
'He who saves a nation , violates no law.' Bonaparte

User avatar
ss1
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 1442
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:29 pm
Location: Broward

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by ss1 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:56 pm

Hey Jon, was the scenario that you painted one where the buyer paid the seller separately or was the courier to act like an "escrow agent" to pay the seller upon delivery of the gun?

User avatar
aquajon
BANNED
Posts: 4130
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:18 pm
Location: Boca Raton
Contact:

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by aquajon » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:01 pm

ss1 wrote:Hey Jon, was the scenario that you painted one where the buyer paid the seller separately or was the courier to act like an "escrow agent" to pay the seller upon delivery of the gun?
Separate payment arrangements. Just like if you tendered it to UPS.

I would assume if you gave the money to the "transporter" to act as an escrow it would really be two transfers of title. Once to the escrow agent and once to the end user when it was transported wherever. I would think this would be an even more legitimate process as all t he firearms transactions were face to face. Assuming all parties involved could legally purchase and own said firearm.
Anonymous wrote:I replied "well you might have beat me at IDPA, but I take comfort in the fact that I'm beating you at life".

User avatar
ss1
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 1442
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:29 pm
Location: Broward

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by ss1 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:10 pm

aquajon wrote:Separate payment arrangements. Just like if you tendered it to UPS.

I would assume if you gave the money to the "transporter" to act as an escrow it would really be two transfers of title. Once to the escrow agent and once to the end user when it was transported wherever. I would think this would be an even more legitimate process as all t he firearms transactions were face to face. Assuming all parties involved could legally purchase and own said firearm.
On the flipside, if you acted as courier and escrow agent often enough, it could land you in some issues as well if that's how they view it. I don't think under UCC law, title is actually passed to the escrow agent, but I'd think you would just want to just handle the transportation just in case.

User avatar
avmech
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:46 pm
Location: Jupiter, FL

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by avmech » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:12 pm

Thanks for taking the time to check Jon [smilie=cheers1.gif] [smilie=cheers1.gif]

User avatar
partsguy283
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 385
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Umatilla florida

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by partsguy283 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:50 pm

GOOD JOB jon!!!

User avatar
False Prophet
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 8093
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:26 pm
Location: MIAMI

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by False Prophet » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:57 pm

Thanks Aqua.

User avatar
HES
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 3385
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:38 pm
Location: Land O Lakes

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by HES » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:21 pm

Thanks man
NRA Rifle & Shotgun Instructor, NRA RSO. Hedonistic Glutton always.

User avatar
aquajon
BANNED
Posts: 4130
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:18 pm
Location: Boca Raton
Contact:

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by aquajon » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:24 am

letter uploaded, put on first post.
Anonymous wrote:I replied "well you might have beat me at IDPA, but I take comfort in the fact that I'm beating you at life".

User avatar
wakkoss
BANNED
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 1:48 am
Location: Palm Beach County

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by wakkoss » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:52 pm

Just bumping this up.
NRA Life Member - GOA Life Member
"That guy way-co, or whacko, he's just an a;;h;;e!" "yep...still an a;;h;;e"
Mom says when I grow up, I could be anything I wanted to...so I became an a;;h;;e!

User avatar
aquajon
BANNED
Posts: 4130
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:18 pm
Location: Boca Raton
Contact:

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by aquajon » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:03 pm

In case anyone prefers more traditional image's instead of the above PDF link.
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3938/atfcourier.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/6429/atfcourier2.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Anonymous wrote:I replied "well you might have beat me at IDPA, but I take comfort in the fact that I'm beating you at life".

User avatar
rug357
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4076
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:23 am
Location: Pembroke Pines (just North of Miami)

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by rug357 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:55 pm

This needs to be tagged to the information resource board.
Fools learn from experience, intellegent person learns from experience of others.
She may not be of my flesh and blood but she is of my heart and soul.

User avatar
Joel
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 1365
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Ft Lauderdale

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by Joel » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:58 pm

rug357 wrote:This needs to be tagged to the information resource board.
+1 (that was my initial thought)

User avatar
BaywaterRoss
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 2967
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: Brooksville, FL

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by BaywaterRoss » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:00 pm

Awesome stuff. You actually got the Federal Government to APOLOGIZE to you!

WTG! :ber

mapper
Member
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 10:20 am
Location: Tallahassee Outskirts

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by mapper » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:52 pm

fantastic,
now to figure out who is traveling and willing to do this...

User avatar
FLEMTP
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 1342
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 8:02 am
Location: Tampa Bay, FL

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by FLEMTP » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:41 am

Ive done it before... and im willing to do it again for members I know on here, or others who are long term members can vouch for. Glad to know i didnt commit any sort of crime...!
Without guns, we'd be british!

User avatar
#1Glock30
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 1434
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:04 pm
Location: West Lake County

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by #1Glock30 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:34 pm

I just clicked on the Megaupload link in the first post and there was a FBI notice that the domain was siezed for piracy. [-X
SHTF Ready

User avatar
aquajon
BANNED
Posts: 4130
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:18 pm
Location: Boca Raton
Contact:

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by aquajon » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:40 pm

#1Glock30 wrote:I just clicked on the Megaupload link in the first post and there was a FBI notice that the domain was siezed for piracy. [-X
Have you been living under a rock the last two weeks?
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/enterta ... -feds.html
Anonymous wrote:I replied "well you might have beat me at IDPA, but I take comfort in the fact that I'm beating you at life".

thorazine
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 3620
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:15 pm
Location: Palm Harbor, FL

Re: UPDATE: ATF response to firearms sales via "courier"

Post by thorazine » Mon May 07, 2012 8:38 pm

I clicked the mega upload link and now there are black helicopters flying over my house!!

Oh noes!

Post Reply