2 muslim women might make it to Congress

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Skoll
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Re: 2 muslim women might make it to Congress

Post by Skoll » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:22 pm

I understand that, yes the basis isn't the first Amendment but via the fact that most of us here are Americans, we still expect a private forum that is expressly for one Amendment to also respect the other.

As for racism being socially acceptable or not? I think we both know that varies by whos social group and where you are. Like everything else it's just one of those things that are going to be part of life, accepted or not. I'll fully admit I have my own biases due to my own life experiences but I normally have the sense to keep those to myself.

It's not wrong for you to take a stand for what you personally believe in, in this case that you believe firemedic is out of line due to who you are and the life you lived, but that doesn't mean that others will necessarily agree and take the same stand. I honestly cannot speak for the community but just judging from the past few years alone, it doesn't seem like any topic has ever been taboo to debate and argue and insult each other over as long as it's not illegal. I'm sorry you feel personally attacked, if it were me I'd just do what I've done before, say said person is an asshole, and move on with my day.
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mikem
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Post by mikem » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:26 pm

Skoll wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:22 pm
As for racism being socially acceptable or not? I think we both know that varies by whos social group and where you are. Like everything else it's just one of those things that are going to be part of life, accepted or not. I'll fully admit I have my own biases due to my own life experiences but I normally have the sense to keep those to myself.
Right -- specifically the question is: is it okay here. It looks like the answer is yes.
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flcracker
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Post by flcracker » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:39 pm

I'll say it - as a human who tries to do what is right, who happens to be white.

Racism, racist speech, and the tolerance of same is wrong and should not be tolerated. Those videos posted by dammitgriff were made by a couple who are known to be slick tech-savvy white supremacists, whose MO is these "tribalism is normal" sort of video rants. They got a schoolteacher in Florida involved in their hate speech and she got herself fired because of it. Guess what? She's not suing for a violation of her right to free speech. She was just another fucking racist.

Many other shooting forums on the internet forbid racist and intolerant speech/posts/photos/videos/etc. This is not a public forum - the site is owned by someone, and it is completely within their rights to limit/censor/ban whatever and whomever they choose. In the past, I often felt that this site was too tolerant of thinly-veiled racist posts. Not so much in the past few years.

However, the OPs rant was about a religion, not about race. The fact that he confuses race with religion when talking about himself doesn't make his post a racist post. How about we get back to discussing how stupid it is to lump all Americans who follow Islam in with foreign radical islamist militants? Sure, there are some Muslims in America who seek our downfall. But there are also children being forced into polygamous marriages in Christian communities in AZ/UT, radical militant sovereign citizens who plot the downfall of our government, and fucktards like that bitch in the video who wouldn't hit the brakes on their car to avoid hitting a black child if they thought they could get away with it.

Racism has no place here. This is a shooting forum that also allows political discussion. Let's keep it that way.

PS - I like firemedic as a person to shoot with and to discuss firearms with. But if he or anyone else here were to ever call my amazing daughter who is exploring the virtues of Sufism a "Muslim animal" simply because she has decided as a white American woman to follow her own spiritual path and to wear a scarf over her beautiful flaming red Scotch-Irish locks, I would "want" to punch him in the nose, but I would "hopefully" be restrained enough in my response to simply shame said ignoramus into a higher appreciation of the protections of diversity that our founding fathers established for us.

In my mind, racism AND religious intolerance are the direct opposite of what our country stands for. I have not met a single military veteran who would say that they put their life on the line to support racism and religious intolerance, and I don't believe that is why firemedic served either.
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mikem
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Post by mikem » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:17 pm

flcracker wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:39 pm
In my mind, racism AND religious intolerance are the direct opposite of what our country stands for. I have not met a single military veteran who would say that they put their life on the line to support racism and religious intolerance, and I don't believe that is why firemedic served either.
I appreciate what you're saying. Seriously: Thank you.

But I think your statement is diminished when you defend Firemedic2000.

First, I confess that I got a few things wrong: the biggest is that dammitgriff posted the video (tut tut) but Firemedic2000 totally agreed with it and stated his beliefs. Here they are again below:
Firemedic2000 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:26 pm
dammitgriff wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:21 pm
https://youtu.be/CFwckUOZBGE
R/Griff
Sorry I have to reply one more time. Watched video. This explains it better than anything I've ever watch before and reflects my feeling exactly.

Today white people are being shamed by the left for just being successful and are automatically racist just because they are white and who they vote for.

I was never racist until I was treated as a racist by true racist. Enough is enough I've had it with these animals that attack us just because we are white AMERICANS. Those that defend and make excuses for these racist bastards can kiss my ass.
There is no other way to read that. It feels like any denouncement of racism here has to be softened. How about: That was racist and racism is not acceptable. Full stop. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth -- just expressing frustration with the need to find middle ground with racists.

I also feel like it is difficult to talk about religion this way without talking about race. It can be done but I think Firemedic basically expounded on his first post with this one. That is -- I feel like the thread is about race because his followup is about race.
Last edited by mikem on Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Skoll
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Post by Skoll » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:18 pm

Don't really know what to tell you. Unless the admins/mods (if any have even been appointed yet) step down on it, it's probably going to be a thing that continues here. I'd suggest PMing fsnadmin.
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”

mikem
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Post by mikem » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:20 pm

Skoll wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:18 pm
Don't really know what to tell you. Unless the admins/mods (if any have even been appointed yet) step down on it, it's probably going to be a thing that continues here. I'd suggest PMing fsnadmin.
Right and i'm saying it shouldn't have to be that way. If we need mods to tell people to be decent, then this isn't a place for me. I know I've said that before and I'm still posting -- here I go... how did you put it? hopefully the door knob will not get stuck in my ass.
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Skoll
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Post by Skoll » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:34 pm

"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”

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tector
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Post by tector » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:03 pm

Race is an immutable characteristic of birth.

Religion is a belief system, as are communism, fascism, conservatism, liberalism, libertarianism, etc. The holder of such beliefs has some choice in the matter, at least as a presumptive adult. It just so happens that religions are premised upon various magical invisible beings. I am not sure why that dubious distinction should immunize them from the criticism, even harsh criticism, levied at other belief systems. Picking dead examples, I was perfectly entitled to detest Castro and the Ayatollah Khomeini equally, especially since both were rabidly anti-American. The same would go for their adherents.

Again, trying to drag race into this is a red herring.

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Firemedic2000
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Post by Firemedic2000 » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:07 am

So let me get this straight I'm a sorry pos for expressing what I believe against people that hate us. Oh and Florida Cracker I'd never do that to your daughter. For some reason it seems most Americans that practice a faith do so simply for that. FAITH and do not use it as an excuse to murder people.

So what I'm posting is racist. I'm racist for saying I'm tired of being trashed by other races. I express my thoughts and now I'm a bad guy. Some you guys are confusing. It's either shoot or don't shoot. We want this law to protect our rights. But use it only if it fits our moral beliefs.

We do not like terrorist or what others say about killing us because we are white. Yet if a white person points it out and it even remotely sounds racist it offends you. Now I'm being judged as what lol.

I relate my experiences with ISLAM point out facts that's provable and still for doing so. I'm being called racist racist. Tell you what you guys get together get a petition and have banned as being a racist bigot.

Because and this is for you flcracker. I despise middle eastern muslims. I do not have anything against anyone that practices any faith for the true intent of finding GOD. I'd never disparage anyones family member here. I do not disrespect anyone in public.

NOT EVEN MUSLIMS IF THEY ARE RESPECTFUL TO ME. I DO NOT RUN AROUND LIKE A MAD MAN SCREAMING AT THEM. BUT I DO WATCH THEM VERY CLOSELY AND FO NOT TRUST. BUT I DO TREAT THEM RESPECTFULLY IN PUBLIC.

I was expressing my opinion about politics and why they are so interested in getting into them. It's not for our or America's benefit. But what do I know I'm just a hateful racist SOB that knows absolutely nothing about these people and have never seen what they do to people simply because they were not ISLAM.

They never if seldom ever turn on each other when one is planning an attack on us or our western allies. Then they celebrate. How often do they condemn terrorist attacks or hold anti terrorist rallies condemning these thing. Ive6never seen one.

Yet they want to live in America and be in AMERICAN politics now. Just like the Mayor of London said. In todays age and time terrorist attacks are a part of life. Yeah because there are muslims moving in now.

Oh and one more thing and this is a history lesson. Prove me wrong. This is not racist either. Show me one democratic nation in Africa run by a all black culture that is not violent and even close to a western civilization. That's not getting aid from America or another western nation just to say afloat. That does not have areas that whites cannot travel. Don't say South Africa they are history, finished as a civilized country.
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Post by jjk308 » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:00 am

Firemedic2000 wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:07 am

Oh and one more thing and this is a history lesson. Prove me wrong. This is not racist either. Show me one democratic nation in Africa run by a all black culture that is not violent and even close to a western civilization. That's not getting aid from America or another western nation just to say afloat. That does not have areas that whites cannot travel. Don't say South Africa they are history, finished as a civilized country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botswana
Botswana (/bɒtˈswɑːnə/), officially the Republic of Botswana (Tswana: Lefatshe la Botswana), is a landlocked country located in Southern Africa. Formerly the British protectorate of Bechuanaland, Botswana adopted its new name after becoming independent within the Commonwealth on 30 September 1966.[7] Since then, it has maintained a strong tradition of stable representative democracy, with a consistent record of uninterrupted democratic elections and the best perceived corruption ranking in Africa since at least 1998.

Almost all of US foreign aid to Botswana, about $66 million per year, is dedicated to fighting the HIV/AIDS epidemic. The people of Botswana are VERY friendly.

As for the rest of Africa, what do you expect from bitter rival tribes, packed together into arbitrary countries by European colonial conquests, who were barely into the iron age 200 years ago? Our civilization has had thousands of years to develop and mature. Theirs hasn't and got off to a bad start.

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