Ghost guns win .gov approval!!!

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gforester
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Re: Ghost guns win .gov approval!!!

Post by gforester » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:20 am

jjk308 wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:26 am
gforester wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:15 pm
I would think that selling your used home built gun to a resident of the same state IS legal. Selling it to someone across state lines would be illegal. When a firearm crosses a state line it has to go to an FFL and go through the BGC process with an ATF form 4473 and that cannot be done if there is no serial number. Just IMHO but I am no expert on the law.
The ATF has a procedure for serial nos for homebuilts. And BTW there are a lot of guns, made before 1967, without serial numbers and its legal to sell them across state lines.
So if you contact ATF and do whatever paperwork is required to get a serial number assigned (and I would think engraved into the gun) then it would be legal to sell across state lines? Sure sounds like more of a PITA that most people would not be wanting to go through. But good to know just the same.

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NorincoKid
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Location: Spring Hill, Hernando County

Post by NorincoKid » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:46 pm

gforester wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:20 am
So if you contact ATF and do whatever paperwork is required to get a serial number assigned (and I would think engraved into the gun) then it would be legal to sell across state lines? Sure sounds like more of a PITA that most people would not be wanting to go through. But good to know just the same.
Not sure.

Alot of the time, on other forums etc, when someone sells a gun built from a unfinished receiver (flat, casting etc) they cut it in half. IE, its a kit again. Probably cause its not worth the trouble figuring out the laws.

Common for AK's. A complete, headspaced kit goes for about the same as a whole gun anyways.

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jjk308
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Post by jjk308 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:21 pm

NorincoKid wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:46 pm
gforester wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:20 am
So if you contact ATF and do whatever paperwork is required to get a serial number assigned (and I would think engraved into the gun) then it would be legal to sell across state lines? Sure sounds like more of a PITA that most people would not be wanting to go through. But good to know just the same.
Not sure.

Alot of the time, on other forums etc, when someone sells a gun built from a unfinished receiver (flat, casting etc) they cut it in half. IE, its a kit again. Probably cause its not worth the trouble figuring out the laws.

Common for AK's. A complete, headspaced kit goes for about the same as a whole gun anyways.
They are costing themselves a lot of money. All the law requires is a serial number (your own) A maker ID of some sort and the city and state it was made in. The ATF doesn't assign serial numbers so make up your own. They may have had plans to do so at one time but apparently gave it up rather than produce new forms and keep the records.

BTW just sawing a receiver in half does NOT meet the legal requirements for demiling so they are violating the law while trying to go beyond their real legal requirements!

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/BATFE- ... -11-09.pdf

https://regulations.atf.gov/478-92/2016-12100#478-92

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NorincoKid
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Post by NorincoKid » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:24 pm

Out of curiosity, i did find this;

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/undef ... f/download

That seems to be directly about handguns and bolt action rifles, so definitely not geared towards MG's. Perhaps its changed?

The stuff you posted was geared towards machine gun, and importation etc.

As of awhile back, even for police dept confiscations getting destroyed, etc, a single cut was acceptable.

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jjk308
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Post by jjk308 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:20 pm

That's correct - AK trophies I saw brought back from Somalia had 3 torch cuts at an angle across the receiver. A PD might ignore a single cut and the ATF would probably just tell you to do it right, but it's still a silly overreaction.

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Dr. Dickie
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Post by Dr. Dickie » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:05 am

gforester wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:15 pm
I would think that selling your used home built gun to a resident of the same state IS legal. Selling it to someone across state lines would be illegal. When a firearm crosses a state line it has to go to an FFL and go through the BGC process with an ATF form 4473 and that cannot be done if there is no serial number. Just IMHO but I am no expert on the law.
Pretty easy to put a serial number on the gun.
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