What the Heck is a Curio And Relics FFL?

The art of collecting C&R firearms including: Mausers, Mosins, Enfields and others. Got questons on C&R Licenses? Ask here.
ExGrndPounder
Member
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 9:06 am
Location: Okaloosa

What the Heck is a Curio And Relics FFL?

Post by ExGrndPounder » Sat Oct 11, 2003 5:01 pm

It has been brought to my attention that this would be a good subject to post about. If you enjoy collecting old military weapons a Curio And Relics license is a must. It opens up so many avenues for you to enhance your collection as it allows you to order directly from dealers in all 50 States. In most cases the license will pay for itself in your first purchase as you no longer have to pay transfer or call in fees.

Here is some basic information that I gathered from various sites online on what a C&R FFL is and how you go about obtaining one.

http://www.rangingthoughts.org/post/201 ... s-FFL.aspx

What the Heck is a Curio And Relics FFL?

A collector of curios or relics may obtain a Collector's License under the Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and the regulations issued thereunder in 27 CFR Part 178. The privileges conferred by this license extend only to curio or relic transactions. The principal advantage of a Collector's License is that a collector can acquire curios or relics in interstate commerce. A licensed collector may acquire and dispose of curios or relics at any location; however, dispositions to nonlicensees must be made to residents of the same State in which the collector is licensed. The licensed collector has the same status as a nonlicensee with respect to transactions involving firearms that are not classified as curios or relics. An individual must be licensed in order to lawfully receive curios or relics in interstate commerce, i.e., from outside his or her State of residence. Further, while a licensed collector may acquire curios or relics and dispose of same from a personal collection, A LICENSED COLLECTOR IS NOT AUTHORIZED TO ENGAGE IN BUSINESS AS A DEALER IN ANY FIREARMS, INCLUDING CURIOS OR RELICS. A FEDERAL FIREARMS DEALER'S LICENSE IS REQUIRED FOR THIS ACTIVITY. Federal law, regulations, and general information pertaining to licensed collectors, curios or relics, and recordkeeping can be found in ATF Publication 5300.4, "Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide."

HOW TO GET ONE

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm

The basic idea is that you will apply for a license, by filling out a form from the ATF (and paying the appropriate fees, which are now $30 for 3 years.).

Here are the steps to acquiring a C&R FFL:

1. Download, or request by mail, ATF Form 7, Application for License, or ATF Form 7CR, Application for License (Collector of Curios or Relics).
Note: These forms may be obtained from the Firearms and Explosives Licensing Center in Atlanta, Georgia, (404) 417-2750, or your local ATF office; or the application form can be downloaded from the ATF site, shown below:

http://www.atf.gov/dcof/index.htm

2. Fill this form out and submit it, with the appropriate fee, according to the instructions on the form.

3. You should sign a copy of the forms sent to the ATF and send it to the local CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) in your area, along with a short note letting them know that you have applied to the ATF to become a C&R collector.

4. You will wait from 4 to 8 weeks from the time that you submit your application until you receive your license.

5. Once you receive your license, you will be able to purchase C&R items. You will need to send a signed copy of your FFL to the dealer that you are ordering the item from.

6. Do not sign the original copy of the license that you receive. Make a number of photocopies of it, and then sign them, in ink, as you send them to the places that you want to order firearms from. (The copies that the dealers receive must be signed in ink!)

THE BOUND BOOK

After you have received a C&R firearm, you will "Log it" into a bound book, which is a simple listing of the date of purchase and related information. The bound book, is also known as a Acquisition and Disposition Record. You can keep this information in an electronic format, such as a spreadsheet, but must receive ATF approval to do so. The Bound Book record for acquiring a firearm lists things like the manufacturer, model, serial number, type, caliber, date and the name/address of whom you got it from. The disposition side includes the date, name, drivers’ license or identification for non-licensees and residency documentation if it is going to an alien.

NOTES:

A Type 03 FFL is *NOT* a license to engage in a business of any kind. Use it as such, and not only do you risk forfeiture of your license, but also federal criminal charges. What constitutes engaging in a business is often the subject of debate, but it boils down to intent and appearance. If your intent, upon the sale of a firearm is to enhance your collection, then you're fine. If your intent is to earn a living, or if it appears that you are doing so for that reason, you stand to place yourself in serious jeopardy.

A Type 03 FFL does *NOT* entitle you to purchase and/or receive any gun you want from any source. You may only purchase and/or receive those firearms that are either 1) demonstrably 50 years or more in age or 2) specifically mentioned in the Curios or Relics List published by the BATF.

Again, once you receive your license DO NOT SIGN IT! Make about 50 - 60 copies, and put it away in a safe place.
Last edited by ExGrndPounder on Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
NRA Life Member
DAV Post 112 Life Member
AMVETS Post 78 Life Member

"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!" Eleanor Roosevelt

User avatar
tony k
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 1801
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:15 pm
Location: Indian River County

Post by tony k » Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:29 pm

A great, finely detailed explanation, ExGrndPounder.

I would pick one nit: Unless things have recently changed, the fee is $30 for a THREE-year license, so in effect it is $10/year. (At least I hope that when mine comes up for renewal, I don't discover they have tripled the fees.)

Next Q&A:

Q. What the heck is a "cruffler"?

A. Someone who has been licensed as a C&R collector and proceeds to buy every C&R gun in sight.

And if that doesn't keep you broke....

Many retailers and wholesalers accept a C&R license as an FFL, and will give you discounted dealer pricing on ALL non-firearms purchases. I have saved literally hundreds of dollars by getting dealer rates at Brownells, Midway, etc. on items that had nothing whatsoever to do with C&R firearms. =D>

ExGrndPounder
Member
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 9:06 am
Location: Okaloosa

Post by ExGrndPounder » Sun Oct 12, 2003 12:27 am

Tony, you are correct about the fees only being $30 for a 3 year license. Thanks for also pointing out the discounts that are available to holders of a 03 FFL.

LZHome has recently acquired his C&R and passed this on to me......."I've only had my C&R for less than a year and about the time I got mine they added one form to the process. "Certificate of Capacity" which is nothing more than a form stating that you are a U.S. citizen. This form can also be downloaded from the BATF... "

If anyone else has anything that should be added please feel free to post a reply. Thank you.
NRA Life Member
DAV Post 112 Life Member
AMVETS Post 78 Life Member

"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!" Eleanor Roosevelt

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:03 am

ExGrndPounder wrote: If anyone else has anything that should be added please feel free to post a reply. Thank you.
One of my first encounters with learning about the 03ffl C&R was with this website. Pretty good starting point IMHO

http://www.cruffler.com/ :smile

User avatar
pistolwhipped
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 8:20 am
Location: Tampa

Post by pistolwhipped » Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:38 am

Thanks guys. Good info. I've been thinking about it. Not a bad thing to have. Saves a bundle in transfer fees if nothing else.

PW

User avatar
mjmensale
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 9500
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:47 am
Location: Palm Beach County

Re: What the Heck is a Curio And Relics FFL?

Post by mjmensale » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:51 pm

ExGrndPounder wrote:Here are the steps to acquiring a C&R FFL:

1. Download, or request by mail, ATF Form 7, Application for License, or ATF Form 7CR, Application for License (Collector of Curios or Relics).
What is the difference between the two forms? Is Form 7 not for C&R?
ExGrndPounder wrote:3. You should sign a copy of the forms sent to the ATF and send it to the local CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) in your area, along with a short note letting them know that you have applied to the ATF to become a C&R collector.
Is the CLEO signoff a requirement before sending the forms to ATF? Like a Form 3 or 4? If it isn't, why do you need to get a CLEO signoff?

Also, can a corporation be a C&R license holder? There are no CLEO signoffs for anything NFA in Palm Beach County! ](*,)

Moe
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. Claire Wolfe

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you. John Steinbeck

If you try to take our firearms, we will kill you. Mike Vanderboegh

ExGrndPounder
Member
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 9:06 am
Location: Okaloosa

Post by ExGrndPounder » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:59 am

For a C&R license all you need to do is drop off a copy of the form at the local CLEO office. He doesn't sign off on anything as the BATF is the approving authority. As far as I can tell it is just a courtesy to let him know that you collect greasy old weapons.
NRA Life Member
DAV Post 112 Life Member
AMVETS Post 78 Life Member

"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!" Eleanor Roosevelt

User avatar
mjmensale
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 9500
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:47 am
Location: Palm Beach County

Post by mjmensale » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:04 pm

So you really aren't legally required to let Mr. CLEO know what you're doing, right? So if you don't send a copy to the CLEO, that will not have any effect on whether the ATF approves your C&R license?

I guess I don't see any need to inform the locals of what I'm doing, courtesy or not. That's one of the nice things about going corporate for NFA toys.

Also, what about a corporation being the C&R holder? Or must the licensee be an individual?

Moe
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. Claire Wolfe

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you. John Steinbeck

If you try to take our firearms, we will kill you. Mike Vanderboegh

ExGrndPounder
Member
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 9:06 am
Location: Okaloosa

Post by ExGrndPounder » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:18 pm

On the C&R form it does state a copy will be delivered to the CLEO, you can drop it in the mail or deliver in person. In my experience I have just dropped it off with the desk sergeant who usually doesn't know what to do with it. The CLEO is not the approving authority for the C&R license but they are required to have a copy of your Form 7 on file. The only time I can think of where this might be an issue is during an BATF inspection of your log book and they check with the CLEO to see if you did drop off a copy.

Also a C&R holder can be licensed as an individual, corporation, partnership, or as an other. Take your pick but I have always crossed off the box for individual.
NRA Life Member
DAV Post 112 Life Member
AMVETS Post 78 Life Member

"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!" Eleanor Roosevelt

User avatar
mjmensale
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 9500
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:47 am
Location: Palm Beach County

Post by mjmensale » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:39 pm

ExGrndPounder wrote:On the C&R form it does state a copy will be delivered to the CLEO...
That's interesting. I don't have to let them know that I might have an "arsenal" of dozens of legally owned machine guns, cans, etc. through a corporation but I have to make them aware that I collect really old sh*t! DUH! ](*,) ::mad :bg

Moe
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. Claire Wolfe

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you. John Steinbeck

If you try to take our firearms, we will kill you. Mike Vanderboegh

Vault Dweller
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:50 am
Location: West Palm, SFL

Post by Vault Dweller » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:44 am

Well if questioned you can tell the inspector you mailed a copy to the CLEO. if the CLEO didnt recieve it, well thats the US Postal services fault, not yours :smile

With my C&R app I recieved a fingerprint card. I thought that was just required for type 01/02 FFLs Do I need to submit a fingerprint card with my app or no?

User avatar
Psycho Magnet
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:57 pm
Location: Palm Bay, FL

Post by Psycho Magnet » Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:22 pm

Vault Dweller wrote:Well if questioned you can tell the inspector you mailed a copy to the CLEO. if the CLEO didnt recieve it, well thats the US Postal services fault, not yours :smile

With my C&R app I recieved a fingerprint card. I thought that was just required for type 01/02 FFLs Do I need to submit a fingerprint card with my app or no?
Yes, you need to submit a FP card. I actually called BATF and asked them some of these questions before sending mine in. In particular this one. Also, per Brevard County Sheriff and BATF it is acceptable to mail the copys required to the CLEO and they need not sign off of them but they must be made aware of the application.

User avatar
mjmensale
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 9500
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:47 am
Location: Palm Beach County

Post by mjmensale » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:10 pm

Psycho Magnet wrote:
Vault Dweller wrote:With my C&R app I recieved a fingerprint card. I thought that was just required for type 01/02 FFLs Do I need to submit a fingerprint card with my app or no?
Yes, you need to submit a FP card.
If the applicant is a corporation or partnership would you need to submit the fingerprint cards? They aren't individuals and don't have fingerprints.

Moe
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. Claire Wolfe

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you. John Steinbeck

If you try to take our firearms, we will kill you. Mike Vanderboegh

User avatar
pyrguns2003
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 4680
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:39 pm
Location: Pinellas County
Contact:

Post by pyrguns2003 » Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:01 pm

mjmensale wrote:
Psycho Magnet wrote:
Vault Dweller wrote:With my C&R app I recieved a fingerprint card. I thought that was just required for type 01/02 FFLs Do I need to submit a fingerprint card with my app or no?
Yes, you need to submit a FP card.
If the applicant is a corporation or partnership would you need to submit the fingerprint cards? They aren't individuals and don't have fingerprints.

Moe

Hi Moe.
I applied as a corp, and yes you still have to have a FP card. They do it on the president of the Corp.
http://www.gunstampa.com
$15.00 FSN Transfers!!!
Wain Roberts Firearms
5631 70th Ave N
Pinellas Park, FL 33781
727-544-7935
Lic FFL for over 35 yrs!

Custom hydrographic printing and firearms refinishing
Hydro Print Services
http://www.hydroprintservices.com/
863-797-4226

ExGrndPounder
Member
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 9:06 am
Location: Okaloosa

Post by ExGrndPounder » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:26 pm

It has been so long since I first got my original C&R that I don't remember if I did a finger print card or not.
NRA Life Member
DAV Post 112 Life Member
AMVETS Post 78 Life Member

"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!" Eleanor Roosevelt

procrastinator43
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 383
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:54 am
Location: Largo, Florida

Post by procrastinator43 » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:16 pm

Got my license 5 years ago and renewed it 2 years ago, did not have a fingerprint card either time. The only thing that changed was needing the Citizenship form.
I was of the opinion that only 01 FFLs needed them.
Most of the forms you get are for both types.

User avatar
mjmensale
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 9500
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:47 am
Location: Palm Beach County

Post by mjmensale » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:26 pm

pyrguns2003 wrote:I applied as a corp, and yes you still have to have a FP card. They do it on the president of the Corp.
That's weird. When I bought my suppressors I did it through a corporation and didn't need to submit any fingerprints to the ATF.

Company officers can change. I would think you'd need to submit fingerprint cards every time that happened, in that case.

Moe
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. Claire Wolfe

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you. John Steinbeck

If you try to take our firearms, we will kill you. Mike Vanderboegh

User avatar
pyrguns2003
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 4680
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:39 pm
Location: Pinellas County
Contact:

Post by pyrguns2003 » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:41 pm

Maybe the FFL 01 is different than the class 3.

I had to get pic'd and Fp'd. and send it with my app.
http://www.gunstampa.com
$15.00 FSN Transfers!!!
Wain Roberts Firearms
5631 70th Ave N
Pinellas Park, FL 33781
727-544-7935
Lic FFL for over 35 yrs!

Custom hydrographic printing and firearms refinishing
Hydro Print Services
http://www.hydroprintservices.com/
863-797-4226

User avatar
Psycho Magnet
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:57 pm
Location: Palm Bay, FL

Post by Psycho Magnet » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:58 pm

mjmensale wrote:
Psycho Magnet wrote:
Vault Dweller wrote:With my C&R app I recieved a fingerprint card. I thought that was just required for type 01/02 FFLs Do I need to submit a fingerprint card with my app or no?
Yes, you need to submit a FP card.
If the applicant is a corporation or partnership would you need to submit the fingerprint cards? They aren't individuals and don't have fingerprints.

Moe
I posted bad info Moe. No FP card is required for an 03 FFL.

akDave

Post by akDave » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:26 pm

ExGrndPounder wrote:The only time I can think of where this might be an issue is during an BATF inspection of your log book .....
I assume this means that they can come to my home at anytime to do an inspection?

Has anyone on this board been inspected?

I have nothing at all to hide but do have a lot of items that would make most non collectors or builders think I was up to no good.

Post Reply