Quality of Mil-Surp to today's bolt-action DMR's

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Orlando Paulitician
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Quality of Mil-Surp to today's bolt-action DMR's

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:52 pm

One of the people I follow on Youtube, Iraq Vet8888, has stated that someone somewhere, doing a doctoral thesis on metallurgy, came to the conclusion that a K31 would cost $2,000+ to make today.

I'm just wondering what everyone's opinion is as to whether some $300-$500 Mil-Surp bolt actions (Swiss K31, Finish M39, et cetera) are often of better quality today than a bolt action with a comparable price tag.

http://www.iraqveteran8888.com/the-iv88 ... vice-rifle

To produce a rifle today of the same quality and materials used in the K31 would be very expensive...they would likely be $2,500-3,000 each if a company like Remington produced them.
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Re: Quality of Mil-Surp to today's bolt-action DMR's

Post by Rentprop1 » Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:02 pm

like most of those know it all's on Youtube, they forget the phrase " stress of wartime maunfacturing " they don't even consider those had to be be made quickly and cheaply...of course the money was a lot different back then

compare the cost of a tank in 1940 to today ...same thing. sure it would cost more to produce, but they did things right back in the old days

I don't follow anyone except Ash from JMAC [smilie=011.gif] , but I ve watched these people follow the James Yeager downhill slide the more and more they feel then need to pump out to stay on top of the youtube charts.....if share , like, and subscribe wasn't a thing, you would have never watched his opinion.
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: Quality of Mil-Surp to today's bolt-action DMR's

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:32 am

Rentprop1 wrote:like most of those know it all's on Youtube, they forget the phrase " stress of wartime maunfacturing " they don't even consider those had to be be made quickly and cheaply...of course the money was a lot different back then

compare the cost of a tank in 1940 to today ...same thing. sure it would cost more to produce, but they did things right back in the old days

I don't follow anyone except Ash from JMAC [smilie=011.gif] , but I ve watched these people follow the James Yeager downhill slide the more and more they feel then need to pump out to stay on top of the youtube charts.....if share , like, and subscribe wasn't a thing, you would have never watched his opinion.
as far as gun guys go, there's only a handful people on youtube I'm subscribed to:
Iraqvet 8888
Forgotten Weapons
Demoltion Ranch (more comedy than anything else)
Military Arms Channel (I barely watch though)
NutnFancy

I barely know of Yeager or his arch nemisis (subject zero?), but I have heard from some of the above sources (can't remember which) that rush-to-war-time does play a big factor in the design and adoption of rifles, probably why if there were a "best" WWI/WWII bolt action, it would probably be Swiss because they never had to rush to war.
Nathan Lewis' testimony before congress wrote: According to a study of 775 floating currencies...the average life expectancy of a floating fiat currency was found to be 27 years.
Ron Paul's Farewell Address wrote:Real patriotism is the willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong,

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Re: Quality of Mil-Surp to today's bolt-action DMR's

Post by jjk308 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:55 pm

You'd never build a rifle by the methods they used to use and the quality wasn't necessarily any better back then. Manufacturing technology and precision have improved a lot in the past 60 or 70 years. Materials haven't improved much, except where changed for easier manufacturing, but quality control is much better today.

As for prices, the best comparison to firearms cost of today is the 2.2 million Enfield 1917s turned out by the 3 privately built and operated plants of Remington (Illion and Eddystone) and Winchester. The US Army paid an average of $26 each for each one. That $26 was about a weeks wage for the average worker, or $1,300 per year. Wages have generally gone up faster than manufacturing costs thanks to technology and automation. It's hard to find wages for an operation equivalent to 1918's rifle plants, but $60,000 a year in pay and some fringe benefits isn't too far off, if you ignore the left over high wages from before the Recession.

Wages have increased by a factor of 45 or so, goods and services overall by a factor of 14, and my best guess is a manufacturers price of those rifles of somewhat under $300 in such a large quantity, increasing by a factor of roughly 11. This would be a modernized 1917, with materials and manufacturing methods keeping it from going up as much as wages, while the quality would be better overall.

I wouldn't weep for the good old days. That manufacturing technology is what gives you the ability to afford a good rifle, and also gives you a good paycheck. Gun enthusiasts are just very conservative, preferring wood to composites and forged steel to precision cast steel and alloys.
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Re: Quality of Mil-Surp to today's bolt-action DMR's

Post by rug357 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:41 am

I would have to agree that workmanship was better back then but the entire manufacturing system has changed and doing it the "old" way is very expensive now. Back then they had to use a lot of hand work because they didn't have the machines we have today which removed the need for some (a lot) of that hand work. I bet we can mass produce a modern K31 rifle with same or better features, better raw materials, more reliable and more accurate than the original for $500 or less. It may not be pretty or have the workmanship of past but it will work better for less money.
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