"Return Without Action"...

Machine guns, SBRs, SBSs, suppressors, destructive devices, AOW (any other weapon)
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870Mike
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"Return Without Action"...

Post by 870Mike » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:11 pm

I am pissed. My "dealer" (who will remain un-named for now, as he still possesses my item) didn't think I had to sign the reverse of the Form 4, because it was being submitted on a Trust. I paid the seller $1200 for my item last November and waited approximately 3 months for the Form 3 transfer. In February, my dealer submitted the Form 4 (without my signature...even when I asked "shouldn't I sign this?").

Today, SIX FREAKING MONTHS LATER, "dealer" receives my Form 4 with a big red stamp across the bottom "RETURN WITHOUT ACTION". :-k

I called ATF and they indicated "Form was not signed...Must be re-submitted under 41F. Have a nice day!" [smilie=014.gif] [smilie=042.gif] [smilie=014.gif]

Informed the dealer who said "Oh well...let's do this again!" [smilie=014.gif] [smilie=014.gif] [smilie=014.gif] So I'm out $1200 and/or the use/possession of my item for another 12 months (based on current Form 4 wait-time predictions). And if Hillary wins and signs an E/O banning "assault weapons" before I'm approved, then what? My item is stuck in limbo?

Never again. Only Form 1's from now on.

To the people who don't know their job:

Image
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better2have&notneed
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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by better2have&notneed » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:44 pm

Whew that sucks...prayers sent

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870Mike
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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by 870Mike » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:24 pm

And the part that really sucks donkey balls? ATF rejected on Mar. 22, but didn't mail back until a few days ago. I could've re-submitted before 41F.

](*,)
Last edited by 870Mike on Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rentprop1
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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by Rentprop1 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:50 pm

damn sorry to hear Bro, word from the ATF is ANYTHING that is wrong and it gets kicked back


so you wanna sell that can for a loss and get out before Hillary LMK ??
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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870Mike
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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by 870Mike » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:01 pm

Rentprop1 wrote:damn sorry to hear Bro, word from the ATF is ANYTHING that is wrong and it gets kicked back

so you wanna sell that can for a loss and get out before Hillary LMK ??
It's an SBR. Gonna roll the dice and hope for the best.

From what I've read, no more "corrections", re-file only. Not sure if that's true or not. Guess we'll find out. It's true for me, unfortunately.
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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by neverenoughguns » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:30 pm

I think every form four through Silencer Shop gets submitted unsigned.... They handle everything from their end. If they reject everyone they submitted, they will be in deep.

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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by 870Mike » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:36 pm

neverenoughguns wrote:I think every form four through Silencer Shop gets submitted unsigned.... They handle everything from their end. If they reject everyone they submitted, they will be in deep.
I'm not transferring a silencer.

From the horse's mouth:


If the firearm being transferred is a machinegun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device, an officer or director of the corporation or other entity must complete item 15 on the reverse side of the Form 4.
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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by neverenoughguns » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:40 pm

870Mike wrote:
neverenoughguns wrote:I think every form four through Silencer Shop gets submitted unsigned.... They handle everything from their end. If they reject everyone they submitted, they will be in deep.
I'm not transferring a silencer.

From the horse's mouth:


If the firearm being transferred is a machinegun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device, an officer or director of the corporation or other entity must complete item 15 on the reverse side of the Form 4.
I just assumed a form four was a form four and they were treated the same.... I gues a silencer is not a firearm and that is the difference. It is all quite puzzling.

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870Mike
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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by 870Mike » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:43 pm

Has the ATF ever rejected a form if it was signed unnecessarily? Doubt it. Dipsheet dealer could've let me sign it, even if "not required".

So instead of this rant, and me wanting to bite the head off a nail all day, I coulda been finger-f'ing my new SBR right now.
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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by Rentprop1 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:10 pm

neverenoughguns wrote:I think every form four through Silencer Shop gets submitted unsigned.... They handle everything from their end. If they reject everyone they submitted, they will be in deep.

SS actually has you sign a Persons with Delagated Authority for signature on NFA Aplications, or at least by signing a certain part of their sales agreement you allow them ( or several of their peeps ) to sign on your behalf, the one I singed as a dealer has like 4 additional names on it previous to my name ...it might be part of their agreement you commit to when purchasing through them :-k

I did over 60 transactions through SS this past year and only one had the issue where SS used an expired CC, but they caught it and it was re submitted before ATF caught it ....can't say anything bad about them /:f
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by MomentArms » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:43 am

Agree on the SS. They have a way to fix returned forms. I know a few of the ones I sold via them bounced back for invalid credit card numbers. The contractor credit card processer in Atlanta hand jams it once. If they screw up and it gets rejected, SS gets it kicked back and fixed no problem. Of course now that rule change is in effect who knows appeal process, if there is one.

Personally, I would staple a signed one to the kicked back and remail it and see what gives

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870Mike
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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by 870Mike » Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:20 pm

MomentArms wrote:
Personally, I would staple a signed one to the kicked back and remail it and see what gives
And risk yet another six month delay?? Nope. Sitting in line for fingerprints now...
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Re: RE: Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by MomentArms » Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:44 pm

870Mike wrote:
MomentArms wrote:
Personally, I would staple a signed one to the kicked back and remail it and see what gives
And risk yet another six month delay?? Nope. Sitting in line for fingerprints now...
My only heartburn is I have a two year old and three day old. The thought of fingerprint them and putting them in a database makes me want to vomit

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Re: RE: Re:

Post by 870Mike » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:57 pm

MomentArms wrote:My only heartburn is I have a two year old and three day old. The thought of fingerprint them and putting them in a database makes me want to vomit
You have quite a few years before they have to be fingerprinted:

So, who is not a “responsible person?” Simply, anyone who may not possess an NFA firearm under the trust is not a “responsible person.” Examples of this include future beneficiaries who are not currently old enough to lawfully possess NFA firearms.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/0 ... nfa-trust/
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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by Rentprop1 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:19 pm

if you havent engraved it yet, sign for it personally


why ?? you may ask ..because no you can where most times you had to use that trust ....lol [smilie=011.gif]
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by 870Mike » Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:24 pm

Rentprop1 wrote:why ?? you may ask ..because no you can where most times you had to use that trust ....lol [smilie=011.gif]
Huh? :-k
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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by better2have&notneed » Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:49 pm

870Mike wrote:
Rentprop1 wrote:why ?? you may ask ..because no you can where most times you had to use that trust ....lol [smilie=011.gif]
Huh? :-k
Kroil fumes...open a window rent [smilie=011.gif]

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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by Rentprop1 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:22 pm

your in the Democratic controlled land of that evil sheriff who wouldn't sign personal NFA applications...right ?? , thus prompting you to have to use a trust in the past....now in the post 41 F days you can sign for it personally and don't have to use your trust, unless you already engraved your gun with the trust info....nothing saying you have to continue to use the trust.
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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870Mike
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Re: "Return Without Action"...

Post by 870Mike » Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:25 pm

Rentprop1 wrote:your in the Democratic controlled land of that evil sheriff who wouldn't sign personal NFA applications...right ?? , thus prompting you to have to use a trust in the past....now in the post 41 F days you can sign for it personally and don't have to use your trust, unless you already engraved your gun with the trust info....nothing saying you have to continue to use the trust.
True. But I'm gonna keep using the trust to make things easier for my old lady when I kick (and in anticipation of future jail time when I finally lose it due to all the Libs & hood-rats down here _: ).

Form 4...no engraving on this one.
"Send lawyers & money...have enough guns." - 870Mike

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