Quick question in regards to SBR

Machine guns, SBRs, SBSs, suppressors, destructive devices, AOW (any other weapon)
Post Reply
User avatar
TheProdigy
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:12 am
Location: Miami, Florida

Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by TheProdigy » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:19 pm

Hello everyone,
I'm currently planning on building a 9 inch 300 blackout SBR to suppress in the future. I'm going to set up a trust within the next two weeks just to make the paperwork with the ATF easier. I'm going to build the lower first and then build the upper to the specifications that I want, both technically aren't NFA items until I combine them. What would the procedure be to get the two SBR-ed and then finally be able to place them together? Would I need to go to a class 3 dealer or turn in either the upper or lower to anyone? Could I e-file the paperwork?
Si vis pacem, para bellum- If you want peace, prepare for war.

better2have&notneed
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 1232
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 3:31 pm
Location: Summerfield, FL

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by better2have&notneed » Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:32 pm

1. Get your trust.
2. File your form 1...mail it in or e-file.
3. Either assemble your lower with a pistol buffer tube and assemble your 9" upper so you can shoot it while you wait for ATF approval (after approval replace the pistol tube with shoulder stock), or assemble your lower with a shoulder stock and wait for ATF blessing to build an upper with a barrel under 16".

You don't need to turn in your upper or lower to anybody...general consensus is that you don't possess the parts (under 16" barrel) to build your SBR until you receive ATF approval. ATF has a thing about "constructive intent"--please google it as my explication of it would be sub par.

The NFA process can seem like a pain in the beginning, but once you do the first one, it's simple.

Check out nfatracker.com for wait times.

I built my 9mm AR as a pistol so I could at least use it while waiting for months....but, an AR pistol is awkward to shoot I think.

User avatar
Rentprop1
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 23224
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:09 pm
Location: Finally relaxin in the country in Citrus Co

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by Rentprop1 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:59 pm

I have a $10 off coupon for an ez trust from Silencerco...if you need it ...you just have to take a quick survey
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

User avatar
Orlando Paulitician
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 4288
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: Seminole County, South Jersey

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:31 pm

What's the point of doing the Trust route now?

The individual route is JUST as easy now. Don't need CLEO signoff, just need to inform them. Just like C&R....
Nathan Lewis' testimony before congress wrote: According to a study of 775 floating currencies...the average life expectancy of a floating fiat currency was found to be 27 years.
Ron Paul's Farewell Address wrote:Real patriotism is the willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong,

User avatar
Rentprop1
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 23224
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:09 pm
Location: Finally relaxin in the country in Citrus Co

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by Rentprop1 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:27 pm

You may want to leave it to a family member when you die or you can still share ownership with a fellow gun buddy...
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

User avatar
Gregh181
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5703
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:05 am
Location: Orlando

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by Gregh181 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:30 pm

Orlando Paulitician wrote:What's the point of doing the Trust route now?

The individual route is JUST as easy now. Don't need CLEO signoff, just need to inform them. Just like C&R....
E filing, its quicker
Make Peace or Die - 1st Battalion/5th Marines - Machine Gunner

NRA Benefactor Member

Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one - Benjamin Franklin

boomboom
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 1152
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:40 am
Location: Manatee County

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by boomboom » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:06 pm

Orlando Paulitician wrote:What's the point of doing the Trust route now?

The individual route is JUST as easy now. Don't need CLEO signoff, just need to inform them. Just like C&R....
Since when? The CLEO sign off requirement ends July 13th (41P), until then you still need a sign off.
Google pain in the ass and your picture should be there-sayeth my wife

User avatar
Rentprop1
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 23224
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:09 pm
Location: Finally relaxin in the country in Citrus Co

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by Rentprop1 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:49 pm

Gregh181 wrote:
Orlando Paulitician wrote:What's the point of doing the Trust route now?

The individual route is JUST as easy now. Don't need CLEO signoff, just need to inform them. Just like C&R....
E filing, its quicker
Maybe in the pre 41P days but now it's about the same either way.....folks in the industry are saying add 2 months to the approximate 4.5 month wait ....
And so many people are still In the mindset of hurry up and wait and the wait will only get longer as July gets here.
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

User avatar
Orlando Paulitician
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 4288
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: Seminole County, South Jersey

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by Orlando Paulitician » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:32 am

boomboom wrote:
Orlando Paulitician wrote:What's the point of doing the Trust route now?

The individual route is JUST as easy now. Don't need CLEO signoff, just need to inform them. Just like C&R....
Since when? The CLEO sign off requirement ends July 13th (41P), until then you still need a sign off.
so 3 months....I spent $450 on my trust. had 41P been available inside a quarter of a year, I'd have waited.
Nathan Lewis' testimony before congress wrote: According to a study of 775 floating currencies...the average life expectancy of a floating fiat currency was found to be 27 years.
Ron Paul's Farewell Address wrote:Real patriotism is the willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong,

boomboom
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 1152
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:40 am
Location: Manatee County

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by boomboom » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:32 am

I have an attorney who will do one for $100. Jeff Young, 941-270-1778. He does them through email for those who can't get to his office. I'd rather get a trust now rather than have to submit my trustees fingerprints and photos to go through a background check after 41 P goes into effect.
Google pain in the ass and your picture should be there-sayeth my wife

User avatar
Rentprop1
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 23224
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:09 pm
Location: Finally relaxin in the country in Citrus Co

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by Rentprop1 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:20 am

boomboom wrote:. I'd rather get a trust now rather than have to submit my trustees fingerprints and photos to go through a background check after 41 P goes into effect.
Years ago, people who were locked in areas where CLEO was not possible would have gladly stood in line for fingerprints or paid for a $10 Walgreens passport sized photo to avoid having to purchase a trust....especially back when they were $500 or more.....now they can be had as low as $49......truth is noone knew what 41 F was gonna say....I think youall can coubt your lucky stars tjat someone slipped up......so why do people think getting printed or having a pic taken is that big of a deal. ???
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

boomboom
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 1152
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:40 am
Location: Manatee County

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by boomboom » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:27 pm

Rentprop1 wrote:
boomboom wrote:. I'd rather get a trust now rather than have to submit my trustees fingerprints and photos to go through a background check after 41 P goes into effect.
Years ago, people who were locked in areas where CLEO was not possible would have gladly stood in line for fingerprints or paid for a $10 Walgreens passport sized photo to avoid having to purchase a trust....especially back when they were $500 or more.....now they can be had as low as $49......truth is noone knew what 41 F was gonna say....I think youall can coubt your lucky stars tjat someone slipped up......so why do people think getting printed or having a pic taken is that big of a deal. ???
It isn't the prints or photos, it's because there is nothing in 41P that mandates the LE department to expedite a background check so if you have a grumpy sheriff or chief, who knows how long you'll wait for your checks to be done before you can submit everything to the ATF. There are also benefits having the trust over just a form 4.

Atty Jeffery Young will now do an electronic trust via email for $50. Send a request through manasotagunlawyer.com and he can do it in a day or two.
Google pain in the ass and your picture should be there-sayeth my wife

User avatar
870Mike
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5103
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:32 pm
Location: Broward (Da 'Hood)

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by 870Mike » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:52 pm

boomboom wrote:
It isn't the prints or photos, it's because there is nothing in 41P that mandates the LE department to expedite a background check so if you have a grumpy sheriff or chief, who knows how long you'll wait for your checks to be done before you can submit everything to the ATF.
Huh? What background check? :-k

One of the largest impacts ATF-41P will have on fictitious entities is the requirement that all RPs will have to submit photographs, fingerprints, a CLEO notification and an NFA Responsible Person Questionnaire (Form 5320.23). See pages 232, 239-247. Further, based on page 96, individuals will be unable to roll their own fingerprints, as has been custom for some over the past decade. However, the final rule includes an exception on page 242-243, where the if the applicant entity has been approved as a maker or transferee within the prior 24 months, there has been no change to the “documentation previously provided” and the entity certifies this by specifying the previously approved form by form type, serial number of the firearm and date of approval, it does not need to submit the photographs, fingerprints and Responsible Person Questionnaire. The final rule, pages 100 and 239, also states that generally speaking, a beneficiary will not be an RP.
"Send lawyers & money...have enough guns." - 870Mike

boomboom
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 1152
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:40 am
Location: Manatee County

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by boomboom » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:58 am

870Mike wrote:
boomboom wrote:
It isn't the prints or photos, it's because there is nothing in 41P that mandates the LE department to expedite a background check so if you have a grumpy sheriff or chief, who knows how long you'll wait for your checks to be done before you can submit everything to the ATF.
Huh? What background check? :-k

One of the largest impacts ATF-41P will have on fictitious entities is the requirement that all RPs will have to submit photographs, fingerprints, a CLEO notification and an NFA Responsible Person Questionnaire (Form 5320.23). See pages 232, 239-247. Further, based on page 96, individuals will be unable to roll their own fingerprints, as has been custom for some over the past decade. However, the final rule includes an exception on page 242-243, where the if the applicant entity has been approved as a maker or transferee within the prior 24 months, there has been no change to the “documentation previously provided” and the entity certifies this by specifying the previously approved form by form type, serial number of the firearm and date of approval, it does not need to submit the photographs, fingerprints and Responsible Person Questionnaire. The final rule, pages 100 and 239, also states that generally speaking, a beneficiary will not be an RP.


How will this affect my existing gun trust?
The construction of the final rule does not apply directly to existing trusts or entities in possession of NFA weapons, but to future applications made by both individuals and entities. After July 13, 2016, you will be required to submit or do the following with any Form 1 or Form 4 application:

a complete copy of your trust and any schedule or exhibit referenced by it;
for each RP -
Two FD-258 fingerprint cards
A 2X2-inch photograph taken within the last year
A completed NFA Responsible Person Questionnaire (ATF Form 5320.23). This form will require the input of a RP's full name, position, Social Security number (optional), home address, date and place of birth and nationality
Provide CLEO "notification"
Prior to submission, the applicant must forward a completed copy of the application form (Form 1 or Form 4) and all other RPs must forward a completed copy of their Form 5320.23 to the CLEO of the locality in which the applicant or RP is located. The new rule also defines who may be considered the CLEO as "the local chief of police, county sheriff, head of the State police, or State or local district attorney or prosecutor."
Google pain in the ass and your picture should be there-sayeth my wife

User avatar
870Mike
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5103
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:32 pm
Location: Broward (Da 'Hood)

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by 870Mike » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:59 pm

That form isn't exactly a background check. More of a "questionnaire"...

http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/Downlo ... D=42096601
"Send lawyers & money...have enough guns." - 870Mike

User avatar
Rentprop1
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 23224
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:09 pm
Location: Finally relaxin in the country in Citrus Co

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by Rentprop1 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:53 pm

Keep in mind many of the livescan fingerprints places do not have the cards as its done electronically ....
You'll need to take them with you and make sure a head of time they can print your prints from the livescan on the card.

BTW ....I sell the fingerprint cards for $2 each.....min of 3 plus shipping of $6. [smilie=011.gif]
I saw the writing on the wall....good luck getting free cards from the ATF anytime after July of this year
...suckers... [smilie=011.gif]
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

neverenoughguns
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 2172
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:01 pm
Location: Holiday, Florida

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by neverenoughguns » Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:43 pm

Anyone know if electronic submital will be possible after July?

User avatar
Chinerd00
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 693
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 9:27 pm
Location: Broward County

Re: Quick question in regards to SBR

Post by Chinerd00 » Fri May 27, 2016 4:27 am

Nfalawyers.com
Three people can keep a secret if two are dead.

Post Reply