SBS Kinda.

Machine guns, SBRs, SBSs, suppressors, destructive devices, AOW (any other weapon)
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Kender
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SBS Kinda.

Post by Kender » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:03 pm

I'm not an expert on NFA stuff although I do think I have a decent enough grasp to know what is and what isn't kosher under those guidelines. This question though goes beyond the norm and might even be sacrilege to some here but please bear with me.

I have some parts, not enough to assemble anything remotely looking like a firearm, for a Remington 1989 model SxS 12 gauge. This shotgun used to belong to my uncle (he died many years ago) and he kept it around for self defense. The problem with this was that he was a felon, nothing really bad just drug charges of one type of another. While moving from couch to couch or putting things in and out of storage he disassembled the shotgun for safer keeping. After he died we went through his things and found some of the parts. I need to track down several key parts which will be a chore in itself. What I want to do is cut down the stock to a pistol grip and cut the barrel to a SBS, kind of a 12 gauge pistol, which fits him as short-squatty-explosive. I want to make this a mantle piece but here is the unusual part... What do I need to do to make this thing inert? What I want is a visually nice SBS but non-functioning in such a way that the ATF considers it no longer a firearm and more of a paper weight. What I am thinking is some solid metal rods welded into the barrel starting about a half inch in on the breech end and going up to as close to the muzzle as required.

Anyone have any info on how to go about doing this. If there is no way to make it inert and will always be considered a firearm then I may go ahead and get a trust and go for the SBS. Now that raises another question. Does the SBS tax stamp cover it being a pistol grip as well as short barrel?

Thanks for the help.

DJ

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tony k
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Re: SBS Kinda.

Post by tony k » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:22 am

That's a tough question to answer. There are no "general" guidelines on what makes a firearm inert v. live. For machine guns, it requires cutting the receiver in specific places into three parts, and discarding/destroying the center section. To make a display MG, you just remove and destroy the receiver, and then build it on on a solid, unmilled display receiver. That won't really work in this case.

The only way to be sure from a legal point of view is to write to ATF Tech Branch asking them how to make it into a display piece. It will take six months to a year for you to get a response ... and they may be helpful, or they may just tell you to destroy the receiver. But I'm pretty sure that welding rods in the barrel will not be sufficient, if you still have a fully functional receiver. IMHO.

Yes, when you register a shotgun as an SBS, you may lawfully use a pistol grip in addition to barrels under 18".

Here is Bear's Bark, a 20-ga shotgun made for FSN pioneer Nick Ward. It started life as a regular SxS shotgun, and is registered as a Short-Barrelled Shotgun:

Image

Kender
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Re: SBS Kinda.

Post by Kender » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:47 pm

^^^^That's what I'm looking to do. I doubt it would ever get shot if I keep it live, well not many shots, as I imagine the kick would be monstrous. Thanks for the help. Anyone else with any info?

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tony k
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Re: SBS Kinda.

Post by tony k » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:31 pm

If you keep it live and do a pistol-gripped SBS, you might be surprised at how much it gets shot. If you convert it right, and stick to very light loads, it can be a lot of fun.

A couple of other FSNers have these -- I know of at least one in 12-ga. and another in 16-ga. -- and they, like mine, are a hit at the range. I show up at shoots with MGs (Colt M16A1, Uzi) and all anyone wants to try is Bear's Bark. I prefer to shoot it one-handed, Bullseye Target Match style, with my "off" hand in my pants pocket. Two-handed gives more control, but you do have to be very aware of where your "off" hand is (i.e., not near the muzzle).

I am extremely safety-conscious when letting others shoot it ... but it has brought a lot of grins to 14-year-olds who are jaded by shooting full-auto.

BTW, some more photos to inspire you:

My son shooting one barrel (if you pull both triggers at once, you get double this size of fireball):

Image

With my Mossy 590A1, for comparison:

Image

A holster I had made for her:

Image


Are you inspired now? [smilie=011.gif]

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Re: SBS Kinda.

Post by BMW GUY » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:39 pm

Couldn't Kender register it as an AOW ? Tax wise it would be cheaper.

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Re: SBS Kinda.

Post by ScarFace88 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:15 pm

BMW GUY wrote:Couldn't Kender register it as an AOW ? Tax wise it would be cheaper.
You can't do that if it had a stock on it at any point.
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No, not me, not when Death lasts forever"
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Re: SBS Kinda.

Post by Don Robison » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:25 am

ScarFace88 wrote:
BMW GUY wrote:Couldn't Kender register it as an AOW ? Tax wise it would be cheaper.
You can't do that if it had a stock on it at any point.
And the tax to build is the same, it's only the transfer fee that is less.

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Re: SBS Kinda.

Post by P5 guy » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:49 am

Does anyone have an over/under short shotgun? All I've ever seen are side by side. :-k

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870Mike
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Re: SBS Kinda.

Post by 870Mike » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:27 pm

P5 guy wrote:Does anyone have an over/under short shotgun? All I've ever seen are side by side. :-k
Image
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Re: SBS Kinda.

Post by P5 guy » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:18 am

That's what I'm talking about. :ber _:

Kender
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Re: SBS Kinda.

Post by Kender » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:47 pm

Don Robison wrote:
ScarFace88 wrote:
BMW GUY wrote:Couldn't Kender register it as an AOW ? Tax wise it would be cheaper.
You can't do that if it had a stock on it at any point.
And the tax to build is the same, it's only the transfer fee that is less.

I didn't figure I would be able to AOW because it was originally register/manufactured with a stock but the build vs transfer brings up another question. If I am building it myself is there still the $200 transfer fee? What fees am I looking at from the ATF. I know I need the trust stuff done but aside from setting that up what am I looking at cost wise to pay the Gov their pound of flesh? It's been a while since I seriously looked into this and in the past it was from a transfer point, not a builders standpoint. The more I think about it the more I want to build this as a shooter. If I'm going to go through the time and effort to bring these parts back to life I think it's worth the few extra bucks for a cool looking shooter with a century of history behind her.

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Re: SBS Kinda.

Post by 870Mike » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:08 am

$200 stamp to build.
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tony k
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Re: SBS Kinda.

Post by tony k » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:27 am

Correct. You file a Form 1 to build it, and pay the $200 "build" tax. It is then registered in your name and no further forms/taxes are due, until or unless you sell it.

Kender
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Re: SBS Kinda.

Post by Kender » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:55 pm

Ok, clears that up. I was afraid for a second there that I'd have to pay to build and then pay to register. Now the hard part is going to be finding the parts without paying $300 for a working gun to canibalize, need a good parts gun.

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