Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

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Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by Springfield » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:32 am

Mossberg is coming out with a pistol grip 14" version of the 590
https://www.mossberg.com/product/590-sh ... hot-50659/ =D>

The trick is the long pistol grip makes total length just over 26" so not an AOL, no NFA stamp required. Think I may get one after they add a built-in laser cuz it's gonna be hard to aim, especially holding the birds head grip at the waist.
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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by flcracker » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:16 am

[smilie=pdt_xtremez_30.gif]

Now THAT is a sidearm that I'd take on a fly fishing trip in brown bear country!!
and some rin up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stanes to pieces wi' hammers, like sae mony road-makers run daft - they say it is to see how the warld was made!

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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by louiethelump » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:18 pm

I was going to ask about this, so I see a thread is started so I will ask here.

How does this shotgun get around the Florida Statute that says a shotgun must have a barrel at least 18" long. My understanding is that ATF requires this as well. Has the 18" Federal requirement gone away? Has the Florida Statute that requires shotguns to have 18" barrels been repealed?

Seeking information here, not being a wise guy, so answers please. I was a FL police officer for 28 years and any shotgun with a barrel less than 18" got seized and the holder went to jail unless it had NFA paperwork.

I have been retired for 10 years now so someone bring be up to date please.

Here is the definition of short barrel shotgun from the most recent FL statutes on the Florida site:

790.001 (10) “Short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

This indicates that either a barrel shorter than 18" or an overall length of less than 26" is a violation in FL. That is how it was when I was working that job and it appears to be the same as of the 2016 statutes. By the way, possession of one of these is third degree felony and the weapon becomes the property of the State.
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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by Rentprop1 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:45 pm

simple its greater than 26 and not classified as a shotgun, its classified as " other " by ATF

digging deeper it had to start life as " other " hence we call it a pistol grip shotgun never having had a butt stock on it, because by definition the ATF says a shotgun has to have a butstock
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by louiethelump » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:06 pm

So, you are suggesting that Florida Police officers for example are going to ignore what is plainly a short barrel shotgun based of Florida law?
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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by Rentprop1 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:34 pm

It's not a shotgun... it's classified as "other "

Last time I looked federal law Trumped ( see what I did there ) state law.....at this point you ask for a supervisor and then ask them to clarify it with ATF.

If you get arrested... you go quuietly....get an attorney and get paid.....most officers have a computer in their car are are able to research any claim you make that something is or isn't as it appears.

Same this if you pull me over with a white pill and I say it's Tylenol ...you can look up the pill code on the computer and check....not use a test kit that's probably gonna register a false positive anyways.
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by louiethelump » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:48 pm

Well we will see how it goes.

Federal law has a provision to allow retired officers from all states to carry firearms in all states. This does not stop NY officers from arresting retired officers carrying under this Federal law and taking them to jail and seizing their legally owned and carried (under Federal law) firearm. From what I understand, the arrested officers end up "winning" these cases in the end, if you consider losing your gun, going to jail in another state and a few thousand dollars in legal fees to be a win.

Thank you for your answers. It should be interesting to see what develops.

As far as "it was never a shotgun", neither was a Bond Derringer ever a shotgun, but they still have to rifle the barrels on the Derringers to avoid it being a short barrel shotgun.

I thought maybe they rifled the barrels on the 14" guns and then classified them as handguns. The specs on the gun say "heavy wall barrel" so I am still wondering about that.

Thank you.
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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by Rentprop1 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:57 pm

Bond Derringer is totally different it's a pistol in that it's designed to be concealed ....

Other as in this case was not designed to be concealed..I keep saying other....but I'm referring to other as in other = what ATF simply calls a firearm.

Rifles barrels would make those short barreled rifles ...IMHO.

This might help

http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88
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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by 870Mike » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:58 pm

louiethelump wrote:Federal law has a provision to allow retired officers from all states to carry firearms in all states. This does not stop NY officers from arresting retired officers carrying under this Federal law and taking them to jail and seizing their legally owned and carried (under Federal law) firearm.

I thought maybe they rifled the barrels on the 14" guns and then classified them as handguns. The specs on the gun say "heavy wall barrel" so I am still wondering about that.

Thank you.
I believe under LEOSA, you cannot carry whatever you want, wherever you want (e.g. AR15 pistol in NYC). LEOSA is the gray area, not this 14" non-NFA shotgun:

http://www.policemag.com/channel/weapon ... o-you.aspx

Additionally, although FL follows Federal law as to what is "legal", some states do not (e.g. no MG's in Cali).

As to the subject of this post, it is not a SBS according to the NFA. It never had a shoulder stock attached, and has an OAL of 26". NFA classification is "FIrearm". Not AOW, not SBS. No stamp required. So...Federally, this is not restricted, but you probably would get busted for it, LEOSA or not, in some states.

From Mossberg (the manufacturer) site: 590® Shockwave
THIS 12GA OFFERS LEGENDARY MOSSBERG PUMP-ACTION RELIABILITY IN A COMPACT 14” BARRELED PACKAGE.

The Shockwave Raptor bird’s head pistol grip is uniquely shaped to minimize felt recoil. Includes all the features that have made Mossberg pump-actions the choice for millions worldwide: ambidextrous safety, dual extractors, positive steel-to-steel lockup, twin action bars, and a smooth operating anti-jam elevator.

Classified as fully-compliant by the BATFE, this model requires no Tax Stamp for transfers.
"Send lawyers & money...have enough guns." - 870Mike

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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by Rentprop1 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:16 pm

I have 3 of these inbound for whats its worth.....this is the same gun I was selling for $595 last year
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by louiethelump » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:22 pm

Hope you guys are right. We will see.

The 4473 for gun purchases was just changed as of the 17 of January. It now excludes users of medical marijuana, just recently legalized in Florida from purchasing a firearm, since MJ is still illegal under Federsl law.

This is an example of the opposite situation: something legal by State law but not legal under Federal law.

You said FL follows the Federal laws on this. The statute in FLORIDA has not been changed and it is still a Florida violation. (The shotgun with a 14" barrel). There may be or may have been an exemption published for LE to not enforce this law. That is what I asked. No one answered and FL prohibits this gun in Florida.

I get it. You folks think it won't happen. I hope you are right.

That is all. Personally I will wait and see. Would love to have one once the legality is made more clear.

I am not your enemy; just concerned as I see a conflict.
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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by 870Mike » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:41 pm

louiethelump wrote:You said FL follows the Federal laws on this. The statute in FLORIDA has not been changed and it is still a Florida violation. (The shotgun with a 14" barrel). No one answered and FL prohibits this gun in Florida.
Not prohibited in FL, as FL follows Federal law...

790.221 Possession of short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or machine gun; penalty.—
(1) It is unlawful for any person to own or to have in his or her care, custody, possession, or control any short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or machine gun which is, or may readily be made, operable; but this section shall not apply to antique firearms.

(2) A person who violates this section commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(Important part ----->)(3) Firearms in violation hereof which are lawfully owned and possessed under provisions of federal law are excepted.
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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by louiethelump » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:44 pm

THAT is what I was looking for!

Thank you.

Bob
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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by 870Mike » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:47 pm

louiethelump wrote:THAT is what I was looking for!

Thank you.

Bob
But you "were a FL police officer for 28 years". How many folks did you arrest because you only read a portion of the cite? [smilie=011.gif]
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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by louiethelump » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:06 pm

None. I entered this asking for the change or portion of the statute that would make it ok. YOU finally answered it. Then you decide to be a smart ass about it.

The management of this board is always trying to get more people to post and discuss. You just proved the reason why many do not.

I actually prevented a lot of people going to jail for things that were legal. I am and was pro gun and supported then and support now private ownership. At the same time many police officers do not take the time to seek answers like I have done. Too bad your arrogance could not let me thank you for providing the information and accept my appreciation.

I am sorry you have to be that way.

By the way, if you are suggesting I am not who I say I am, why don't we choose a neutral party, both of us give him 500 dollars and we will get together. If I am not who I say, you get the money. If I am who I say, I get the money.

I spent a lot of my life trying to do right and go by the law, and never presented myself as all knowing or I would not have asked you folks.

Your sarcastic gloating is a measure of character.

I still thank you for providing the answer to my question.
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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by MomentArms » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:46 pm

Rentprop1 wrote:I have 3 of these inbound for whats its worth.....this is the same gun I was selling for $595 last year
Where did you get your allocation? Im on the list,but haven't made the cut

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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by Rentprop1 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:05 pm

I've got friends in low places....

Louie....if you got an extra $5 and 8 months to wait we can make this happen....give me a call...I can make it shorter if you want and even change the grip.
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by louiethelump » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:15 pm

Thanks! ;-)

i will think about it.
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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by 870Mike » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:21 pm

Lighten up, Francis. I'm just busting your nutz. :ber My BIL is a cop who knows very little about the law. I give him a hard time, too...
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Re: Mossberg 14" pistol grip Shockwave - No NFA

Post by 870Mike » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:26 pm

louiethelump wrote:I entered this asking for the change or portion of the statute that would make it ok.
louiethelump wrote:So, you are suggesting that Florida Police officers for example are going to ignore what is plainly a short barrel shotgun based of Florida law?
louiethelump wrote:This indicates that either a barrel shorter than 18" or an overall length of less than 26" is a violation in FL. That is how it was when I was working that job and it appears to be the same as of the 2016 statutes. By the way, possession of one of these is third degree felony and the weapon becomes the property of the State.
louiethelump wrote:Hope you guys are right. We will see.
louiethelump wrote:You said FL follows the Federal laws on this. The statute in FLORIDA has not been changed and it is still a Florida violation. (The shotgun with a 14" barrel). There may be or may have been an exemption published for LE to not enforce this law. That is what I asked. No one answered and FL prohibits this gun in Florida.
"Send lawyers & money...have enough guns." - 870Mike

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