Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

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DaveM
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Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

Post by DaveM » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:47 pm

Some time ago there was talk about taking Mossy pistol shotguns and cutting the barrels as short as possible. IIRC, this was legal because the SG was never a long gun and considered a pistol.

Is the info I posted correct or can anyone point me in the right direction, please.

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Re: Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

Post by Rentprop1 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:29 pm

They are called PGO or pistol grip only

They are transfered as " other " as not considered a shotgun or pistol by definition . ..it's still a super grey area with BATF and many companies, Mossberg included, have frozen sales of the short barrels ( see post below :-k ) , and associated parts to LE agencies only.... even 07 manufacturers can't but them....

If you buy one you need to keep anything showing the original configuration was a pistol grip and not a shotgun with a long barrel that you cut down...most people keep the box label with serial number and model number .... shockwave Industries is the company that sells the birds head grip it's about $25 lots of people are cutting them down to 15 inch on the cruiser model and you can still get 5 + 1

Cubastang knows a lot about these and should be around shortly
Last edited by Rentprop1 on Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

Post by flcracker » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:31 pm

AFAIK, cutting down a PG shotgun is making an AOW, not a pistol. Must register & pay the tax.
and some rin up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stanes to pieces wi' hammers, like sae mony road-makers run daft - they say it is to see how the warld was made!

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Re: Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

Post by Rentprop1 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:54 pm

flcracker wrote:AFAIK, cutting down a PG shotgun is making an AOW, not a pistol. Must register & pay the tax.
Got some sort of info on that...??

Overall length has something to do with it too as in not being able to be concealed at 26 inches ?? AOW Refers To conceal

here is shockwaves page

http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

and here is a TFB article

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015 ... cattergun/

now don't much it up and go asking the ATF anything :ham'r

posts on the shockwave site say Mossberg has started to sell these again, but who really knows till you try and order one.
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

Post by DaveM » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:26 am

Thank you Rent. I knew I had read it before but didn't know how to find. :ber

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Re: Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

Post by Rentprop1 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:11 am

the funny thing is cubastang and I were talking about this for the last 2 months, via PM, I guess he had a contact at Mossberg that kept blowing him off, so he bought one someplace else already assembled......so a few weeks went by and I said eff-it and I called said I was an 07/02 and wanted to buy some 14 inch barrels, the lady told me they were only for LE agencies sales only at this time while waiting for ATF to make a decision, not even regular officers can buy them =:wvr , so I asked for stupidvisor, and was told the same thing, she cited new company policy or something, So based on the one post in the shockwave comment section someone said they are selling again :-k , but until I try and call them again today and verify that the stock number for the short tube and barrel package is available for sale this is all just hype....Ive been wanting to sell a few at gunshows for the last couple of months

another FFL had bought several barrels and up until middle of this year was trickling them back out a few at a time, I sent him an e-mail and he's not parting with anymore till he's able to replace, I will fire an e-mail off to him, mention the post on the shockwave site and also ask him ?

there is always the poor mans version if you get the cruiser model, you can trim it back to about 15 inches ( just in front of the cap ) and get 5 + 1.......I'm still miffed how you get 5 + 1 out of a 14 inch barreled tube, level with the muzzle, but cubastang verified it was 5 + 1 ...so ?? :-k
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

Post by flcracker » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:54 pm

flcracker wrote:AFAIK, cutting down a PG shotgun is making an AOW, not a pistol. Must register & pay the tax.
Meant to add... "to less than 26" overall "
and some rin up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stanes to pieces wi' hammers, like sae mony road-makers run daft - they say it is to see how the warld was made!

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Re: Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

Post by Rentprop1 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:38 pm

flcracker wrote:
flcracker wrote:AFAIK, cutting down a PG shotgun is making an AOW, not a pistol. Must register & pay the tax.
Meant to add... "to less than 26" overall "

sure you did :---)

but correct, once you cut it, and add that shockwave raptor grip, you CAN NOT go back to a regular pistol grip without registering it as an AOW, or so Ive read.....there is no BATF directive on this, several idiots have written letters only to get it on the radar and start a problem, just like the blade and the sig arm brace, you have to remember its a gamble and you can hope they grandfather the PGO in, but don't count on it, its a free $ 200 each for the gov if they choose to go that way.....they know most shooters are not gonna chance having an unregistered short SBS and will cough up the dough......I think the sig arm brace folks will be first in the firingline, and most of them will just revert those guns back to an AR pistol, but with the 14-15 inch barrels on these shotguns, there is no going back if you cut it, other than to buy another barrel at $ 150 ish.....and thats not cost prohibitive when you can keep it and register it as a SBS for $ 50 more, then add a stock or whatever you want.
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

Post by Cloaked Dagger » Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:07 pm

Rentprop1 wrote:
flcracker wrote:
flcracker wrote:AFAIK, cutting down a PG shotgun is making an AOW, not a pistol. Must register & pay the tax.
Meant to add... "to less than 26" overall "

sure you did :---)

but correct, once you cut it, and add that shockwave raptor grip, you CAN NOT go back to a regular pistol grip without registering it as an AOW, or so Ive read.....there is no BATF directive on this, several idiots have written letters only to get it on the radar and start a problem, just like the blade and the sig arm brace, you have to remember its a gamble and you can hope they grandfather the PGO in, but don't count on it, its a free $ 200 each for the gov if they choose to go that way.....they know most shooters are not gonna chance having an unregistered short SBS and will cough up the dough......I think the sig arm brace folks will be first in the firingline, and most of them will just revert those guns back to an AR pistol, but with the 14-15 inch barrels on these shotguns, there is no going back if you cut it, other than to buy another barrel at $ 150 ish.....and thats not cost prohibitive when you can keep it and register it as a SBS for $ 50 more, then add a stock or whatever you want.
The law is so convoluted the BATFE doesn't even know what it says! The NFA needs to just be repealed already.
Libertas aut mortis!

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Re: Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

Post by Rentprop1 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:36 pm

Your preaching to the choir and wasting bandwidth...lol
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

Post by John K » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:35 am

Rentprop1 wrote:
flcracker wrote:
flcracker wrote:AFAIK, cutting down a PG shotgun is making an AOW, not a pistol. Must register & pay the tax.
Meant to add... "to less than 26" overall "

sure you did :---)

but correct, once you cut it, and add that shockwave raptor grip, you CAN NOT go back to a regular pistol grip without registering it as an AOW, or so Ive read.....there is no BATF directive on this, several idiots have written letters only to get it on the radar and start a problem, just like the blade and the sig arm brace, you have to remember its a gamble and you can hope they grandfather the PGO in, but don't count on it, its a free $ 200 each for the gov if they choose to go that way.....they know most shooters are not gonna chance having an unregistered short SBS and will cough up the dough......I think the sig arm brace folks will be first in the firingline, and most of them will just revert those guns back to an AR pistol, but with the 14-15 inch barrels on these shotguns, there is no going back if you cut it, other than to buy another barrel at $ 150 ish.....and thats not cost prohibitive when you can keep it and register it as a SBS for $ 50 more, then add a stock or whatever you want.

Register it as an AOW, a Form 2 costs you $0.42, the Form 4 for an AOW is only $5.00, its cheap insurance

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Re: Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

Post by NonConformist » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:53 pm

Gun shop here has several shotguns w/ SIG braces, pg front and rear but I couldn't get an employee to find out how they aren't nfa, I'm assuming their classed as 'firearms' and are 26" plus long
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Re: Help w/ laws regarding Mossy pistol gripped SG

Post by bugman » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:14 pm

I just built one of these 514s from the A1 barrel kit.

Obviously I am already fully invested in the idea that they are legal without any need to register.

But here are my observations

If you go with the $200 factory kit, you are indeed stuck with the $25 Raptor grip add on, the standard wrist cracker PG makes the OAL too short.

You can also buy a $50 Raptor Lug which allows you to cut the barrel and mag tube down to where you want. Then you can use the stock PG.

You can also use an 18.5 inch barreled gun with the five round mag and just cut the barrel down just in front of the end cap. that will give you about 15 inches of barrel and you should be able to use the standard PG.

If you want to use a heat shield do not get the 514 kit. They are made from A1 barrels and the shield won't fit. Any shield you buy will have to be modified anyway

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