9mm AR Build

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grussgott
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9mm AR Build

Post by grussgott » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:52 pm

[smilie=cheers1.gif] ALL DONE!!

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Final Build.

It’s All Put Together and I have run some rounds threw it! This is a “Post Date” as I have been So Busy since I Actually Put it Together towards the End of September and Only Just Today have had a chance to Post It.
I had it put together but did not lock it down for about a week but with all that’s been going on lately I just haven’t had the time to post anything. Now that I have Some Time to do so I will just write it out all at once and post the pictures below.
All the parts arrived just prior to Irma so there was zero time to look them over with all the storm prep and then after the storm I had no power so I was unable to post any updates and pictures.

Below you find pictures of All the parts and separate pictures of them broken down as Upper and Lower Parts.
Up until the Morning I ordered the parts I was still NOT %100 on what I wanted to get. I had lots of good input from board members and had read or watched many reviews of the parts I was considering. I changed my mind at least a few times a day. Then much to my own surprise I settled pretty much on the same foundation that I had listed in the beginning of my post. The Upper and Lower as you will see are Joe Bob’s with one twist that I didn’t expect myself. The upper is a Side Charging Upper. I do and have now shot suppressed (read more later) on AR’s with a suppressor and after reading many reviews the side charger seemed to be the way to go. On this I have NO Regrets. Also I wanted the Last Round Bolt Hold Open feature for sure. The Spartan Upper just seemed to meet all my needs. It was natural to go with the matching lower and it looks very nice as it should. Before I forget, the LRBHO Worked Perfectly.

Below I will go over the other parts I selected and why I did so

The Bolt Carrier Group (BCG) Buffer and Spring. I simply wanted a Very Heavy Bolt as all I read or watched in review after review, People started lite and went to heavy after having lots of problems. Going Heavy always seemed to be a key in fixing Most Issues. Not to mention going lite if it worked would put lots of stress and wear on all the parts especially the lower. I had also considered going with the JP Silent Capture Buffer but it just wasn’t going to work (with my desired stock to be) without costly and time-consuming modifications. I don’t know anyone that can make the required modifications. Since It’s still something I could consider doing in the future and after speaking to some techs at JP plus the people that they referred me to. It’s still Not Off the Table and one more reason I decided to go with the JP Bolt. It would be ready without modifications in the future to accept their buffer. So Instead of the JP Silent Capture Buffer and because of my buffer tube choice, I went with a custom buffer and spring specifically designed to for my buffer tube. These parts came from HeavyBuffers. The Buffer weighs in at a hefty 8.5oz and the Spring is a 308 Spring, cut to length for my specific buffer tube.

I also installed the same trigger as my other AR’s the Hiperfire Hipertouch EClipse along with a set of KNS Anti Roll Pins
All the parts went together pretty much as expected. I would like to thank John who saved me lots of time and for sure $$ with his suggestion of using the Plastixrevolution Jig in order to hold the upper and install the barrel. I can now very much recommend this set up to others planning on assembling and AR Upper. Putting the barrel on and torqueing it down was one thing I had never done and I was a little nervous about. After watching some videos on it and reading a lot on doing so I went middle of the road on torque at 35lbs. I did not do the torque and reset and torque and reset method either. But using the Plastixrevolution jig really was the only way to go since a 9mm upper is not quite the same as a standard upper and for sure would not have worked with my Magpul block.

All the other parts were pretty much standard AR pins and parts but if you have any questions please post them.
Once assembled but Not Locked in with any blue lock, I got a chance to get it out to my local indoor range just for a function test. I filled mags with some Wolf Ammo 115gr I had sitting around forever as I just don’t use it in my pistols, some 147gr reloads that would not pass the drop test in a few barrels that I kept separate, some new in the box 147gr Aguila ammo that I like to use and finally 15rds of 165gr Hush Ammo. Much to my surprise and delight I had the range to myself! I had forgotten to bring my sight adjustment tool and I hadn’t mounted the red dot from my SBR but then again it was supposed to be “just a functions test run”. The front sight post was set way off I could see right away but I took aim center mass on the head for a reference. Yes, it went Bang the first time and each and every time after. I aimed at the same spot each time and had a nice tight group I could put my thumb on to cover. I was quite pleased as it’s still in the obligatory pistol configuration. So, shooting with a pistol that was not zeroed and firing in the not so solid buffer tube to the cheek mode I was making a nicer shot group than expected. Plus the fact that it’s 9mm and as advised All Heavy Innards. After shooting AR’s for 35 years and feeling but not fully thinking about it anymore you get a sharp but mild jolt when firing them. If you’ve fired them as much as I have then you can literally think about it and feel\recreate this in your mind. Compared to that even though it’s sure only a split second, the 9mm AR configuration is like slow motion to me. You can feel it fire, hold, rock back, pause, and slip forward to reengage. It’s almost a lurching feeling not a rapid at all compared to a 5.56. Don’t get me wrong I did some double taps and more just to see if I was imagining it. It fired as fast as I could pull the trigger for sure. It’s just something you have to experience to get. I decided to push a fresh target to the backstop (I believe will have to check 25yrds?) I choose a spot to aim at and popped a few rounds and once again a decent group about the about palm size then a few double taps made it hand size. Very pleased for sure. Next I put the suppressor on and brought the target in to about 10yrds. Loaded up the HUSH 165gr and fired. WOW All I could Hear Was the Spring and Buffer. Having it on your cheek with No Stock it’s amazingly loud! I fired off the rest of the 15rds with a thumb sized group again. Here is where I was thinking I was glad I went with the JP Bolt as the JP Silent Capture is seemingly more likely in the future. I will wait and see. I have fired suppressed with my standard AR but of course not subsonic ammo. The set up as you can see in the pictures is essentially the same but with a stock. I for sure can hear the action but nothing like the 9mm. I guess as Rentprop1 pointed out if you focus on it, it will drive you crazy. But with that said you don’t have a lot of choice as that’s ALL You Can Hear. Since It was Only 15rds and minus the stock it’s to early to tell where I will go with it. Another Note especially for anyone else that is considering going suppressed. Here is where I was Very Happy with my choice of the Side Charging Upper. As anyone knows that has fired a standard AR you get a not so pleasant but tolerable blast of gas up your nose from around the charging handle. BUT with this side charging configuration there is NONE of that! You just see wisps of smoke like someone puffing on a pipe coming out of the ejection port. Was it worth the Extra $$ for this upper? I think so. Next I loaded up the full 33rd magazine with Wolf Ammo and just blasted it at the target. Once again it ate it all and was hungry for more. Unfortunately that was all the ammo I had as it was only supposed to be a Function Run. Wow that was a lot of fun! I was kinda disappointed I didn’t bring more. But, I had fired 90 rounds with ZERO Issues! I was more than happy with the set up!

Since All Worked So Well I put Lock Tight on the screws for the handguards, trigger and such. The next step will be to submit the forms to SBR it. I can only imagine what it’s going to be like once I get the stock and red dot on it and get it zeroed!

Soon after finishing my build I had some thoughts about putting a 3 lug adapter on it? This was strictly an Idea, just something I would do in the future and maybe even a 5in or so barrel with it. Well I think it was the Next Day? I was on my post ant there was the Last Entry by ss1 suggesting a 3 Lug Barrel! Me being me I thought it over and over. Then the next day I ordered IT AND a New Upper to put it on.Thanks Again ss1!

Thank You to All that replied to my post and PM’d me as well. Every Post made a difference to my thought process and the outcome of my build.

Note Some Pictures will be from prior to the final picture at the top, the come from me wanting to test it before all the parts came in such as the handguards and the 3 lug barrel.

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All the Parts

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Upper Parts

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Lower Parts

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5in 3 Lug Barrel

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Right Side

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Red Dot is the Vortex Sparc2 AR

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Top is my 5.56 7.5in SBR Built it about two years ago. Spikes Lower with Same Trigger.
Handguards Top to Bottom are Samson 7in 7.5in and 7in


The Following Pictures Are Mostly For Comparisons

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Obsedian45 in Short Configuration Mounted on the 3 Lug

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Hope You Enjoyed

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Rentprop1
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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by Rentprop1 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:28 pm

I didn't read you entire paragraph, but pretty sure someone from the ATF would like to talk to you is you keep that buffer tube on there :ham'r

I can't remember the exact provision, but it says not capable of adding a butt stock, you can easily slide any stock on that carbine buffer tube , so its not legal....designated pistol buffer tubes are larger diameter so you can't add a stock
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by better2have&notneed » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:09 am

grussgott wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:52 pm
[smilie=cheers1.gif] ALL DONE!!

Image

Since All Worked So Well I put Lock Tight on the screws for the handguards, trigger and such. The next step will be to submit the forms to SBR it. I can only imagine what it’s going to be like once I get the stock and red dot on it and get it zeroed!


Hope You Enjoyed

ATF wrote:


Image

Depending on your timing, WE can imagine what it's going to be like once you get the stock on it.



[smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif]

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grussgott
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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by grussgott » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:54 pm

Rentprop1 wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:28 pm
I didn't read you entire paragraph, but pretty sure someone from the ATF would like to talk to you is you keep that buffer tube on there :ham'r

I can't remember the exact provision, but it says not capable of adding a butt stock, you can easily slide any stock on that carbine buffer tube , so its not legal....designated pistol buffer tubes are larger diameter so you can't add a stock
Yes, I must say thank you for pointing out how remiss I was when I posted my pictures and wrote my post. You are correct it is NOT a Pistol Buffer Tube.

One of the main reasons I joined this sight and started my original post (see 1stAR 9mm Complete Glock Build Questions)
Link to Post viewtopic.php?f=13&t=136647&sid=edfbfb3 ... p1077597
was to learn as much as I could about building a 9mm AR Pistol that would I could eventually upgrade to an SBR. I wanted to glean as much as I could from others on this sight before spending my hard earned money on an expensive but hopefully fulfilling project. The other good thing with a sight like this, is the information is preserved in a manner that Others can Also Learn from it in the future. I really enjoyed the back and forth and useful comments and all of it was taken into account and shaped the final outcome of my build. But as I stated I was a little remiss, I left out a Crucial Part of that information. The fine line of building a Legal Pistol and Not Crossing the Line to SBR. Since I Did NOT Fall Asleep At the Holiday Inn Reading the 4 Pages Posted by the ATF (Link to ATF Page https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download ). I managed to read the part that says in essence, you Can Buy the Parts and if they Come In A Kit Form you Can Assemble the Parts but DO NOT Assemble the Portion (read hear as Put The STOCK on the Buffer Tube) that ‘Makes It an SBR’. So, Read the Entire PDF Yourself it’s as Clear as Mud. Read it slowly, understand it and listen to the point they are making and it’s much clearer.

Here’s the story of how I Learned This.

A while back I decided to build my First AR and it was going to be an SBR. (Picture in Comparison Pics Above) From the Get Go I thought Pistols Just Looked Weird and wasn’t interested in building one. So I purchased ALL the Parts and locked them in my safe keeping the Buffer and Stock Separated and at completely Different Locations! I then put in my paperwork to get my tax stamp and set back and waited and waited. Sometime later I was at a match (AR Night at my local) with my “Standard AR” chatting with friends, some of whom were sporting their own SBR’s. They were all licensed of course and some members build and sell weapons professionally. I mentioned that I had all my parts and had put in my paperwork to get my stamp to make my own SBR. I also mentioned that it was driving me crazy to have all the parts and NOT be able to put them together. One of them looked at me and kind of chuckled and smiled. I asked him what was so funny? It was at that time that I learned that you Can Assemble and use the weapon As A Pistol and YES, USE The actual buffer tube but do NOT Put the Stoke On It. Do NOT Show Intent Either as in the stock is in a separate location. Don’t take it to the range or to a friend’s house with the Stoke in the bag. Don’t Post Pictures Dated BEFORE Your Tax Stamp Arrives With The Stock On It! I also heard the words that I have heard and will say below more than once. “DON”T Just Trust ME, Read if for yourself” and “Do Your OWN Due Diligence!” SO, Imbed the link to the ATF Sight Link Again https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download . But as stated above Do Your Own Due Diligence! Things as we know, Change All The Time. An excellent example would be the Sig Brace, Yes you can use it, No You can’t, Oh wait we can, But we Can’t do this with it, No I mean Yes You Can. Bump Stokes which way will the wind blow on that? So if you are reading this, look at the posting date it could be a day later it could be a year. Things May Have Changed, Don’t Trust Me. Do Your OWN Due Diligence.

Everyone Else, Did you take the time to read it? :-k Let me know what conclusion you came to? [smilie=popcorn.gif] If I am wrong please put in the link to an official document saying so. We are all here to learn [smilie=033.gif] I am far from perfect for sure.

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grussgott
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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by grussgott » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:07 pm

Since All Worked So Well I put Lock Tight on the screws for the handguards, trigger and such. The next step will be to submit the forms to SBR it. I can only imagine what it’s going to be like once I get the stock and red dot on it and get it zeroed!


Hope You Enjoyed
[/quote]


ATF wrote:


Image

Depending on your timing, WE can imagine what it's going to be like once you get the stock on it.



[smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif] [smilie=011.gif]
[/quote]

Well my Antagonistic Trolling Friend, I to get the Same Reaction Every Time I Pull Out My Pistol!

Seems I am getting that Reaction again just talking about it. I may have to Excuse Myself and go Pop Off a few rounds.
_:

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by Rentprop1 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:42 pm

I think your treading into shark infested waters with interpretations, believe what you want, wait for your stamp and act like a rock star the day it comes in....you initial post was informative, but more and more with these remedial lectures on ATF rule of law, it's leaning towards attention seeking.....your not the first one read, and interpret ATF regs in a different light.....but good luck with that

hopefully someone much wiser than me will come along and type more than common sense and you'll believe you made a boo boo.....locktite on an AR...total noob move, but enjoy [smilie=popcorn.gif] [smilie=popcorn.gif]
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by grussgott » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:06 pm

:-k Please Point Me to something I-We can Read to the Contrary.

Being a NOB doesn't make me wrong. Having Nothing to show me that I am wrong doesn't make you right.
My Point above is if you can't show me or teach me what is the point of just telling me I am wrong? How am I or others supposed to gain anything from that? My Ears, Eyes and Mind Are Open. I don't mind being Schooled but that takes facts a link would be nice. [smilie=popcorn.gif]

Grussgott

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by Rentprop1 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:03 pm

Do what you want you are going to anyways with that attitude....
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by better2have&notneed » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:00 pm


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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by Rentprop1 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:29 pm

[smilie=popcorn.gif]
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by grussgott » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:00 am

#-o Well then I guess it's a good thing I Don't Have the Stock [smilie=021.gif]

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by Rentprop1 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:30 am

Switching gears here just so we know where you are on the spectrum.... tell us what's with all the backup sights... are you thinking your batteries are going to die after the first couple of days during the zombie apocalypse, or are you forgetful and leave those damn things on after each range session [smilie=011.gif]
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by grussgott » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:31 am

They call them Back Up Sights for a Reason. And each one is set for each configuration. 20 years in the Infantry The first thing you do with a new rifle is inspect it clean it and take it to the range and zero it. Also memorize your battlefield zero, pick up most any rifle you have to, battlefield zero it and move out. Sure you can shoot without zeroing, we ran tire houses many times shooting from the hip ONLY. Most rounds were center mass double taps you could cover with your thumb. Steal sights on the front where it gets hot especially run and gun suppressed. Uniformity also helps with consistency when picking anyone of my guns off the rack. I Started with the A1 so did my brother and sister. I carried it in the M203 configuration as well. We still had Thumpers also. Carried the CAR15, issued some of the first A2's. Fired grease guns, FN's, GAL's H&KMP5SD's. 50cals part of the 60 Crew for 3 years AK's in multiple configurations. I could go on but... Still the mainstay was essentially the M16. I have been using essentially the same platform for 35 years. I like what I like, I like it set up the way I like it set up. A while back I got busy with range set up and BS'ing with people. I got called to the line first and didn't turn on the red dot before putting it on the table. Thought what the heck, a good training moment. Flipped up the sights and ran the line no problems. Good Question Thanks,

Besides, Rick and the gang have been shooting zombies for years now. Not to many good batteries around. So good to be familiar with your back up. When the zombies break down the gate it's not a good time to zero #-o

Enjoyed the Original Banter also. Hope it helps someone else in the future.
Last edited by grussgott on Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by Rentprop1 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:01 pm

here is a pic of mine
.
https://imgur.com/a/MXMcV
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by 870Mike » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:25 pm

Image
"Send lawyers & money...have enough guns." - 870Mike

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by Rentprop1 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:04 am

but he claims he doesn't own a buttstock.....oh wait ... :ham'r

what is that black butt device I see in those pics ](*,) #-o

yet he continues to argue semantics because of what he interpreted or the guys at the match told him =:wvr
In the days of the old west a 6 shooter was as common as cell phones are today and just annoying if they go off in a theater.

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by revelation » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:17 am

Rentprop1 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:01 pm
here is a pic of mine
.
https://imgur.com/a/MXMcV
That is a thing of beauty Rent. What kind of red dot sight is that? I can't tell is it is an Aimpoint or Burris.

:ber
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

George Orwell.

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by grussgott » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:00 am

](*,)

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by grussgott » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:22 pm

Chief John Anderton I thought they shut your unit down when they let the Precogs go.

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Re: 9mm AR Build

Post by grussgott » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:40 pm

Rent, I meant to say earlier I like the paint job as much on this posting as I did when I said I liked it on the other posting. Enjoyed seeing it again. You never did say how you liked my new build?

Grussgott

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